Rocky Mountain Fur Con canceled following neo-Nazi associations, tax irregularities
Colorado furry convention Rocky Mountain Fur Con has been canceled. Funds collected in advance of this August's event are to be spent on existing liabilities, and refunding attendees and dealers where possible; any remainder will go to the convention charity.
While their official statement cites rising security costs, the closure follows the controversial issues surrounding CEO Kendal Emery (Kahuki Liaru), and the "Furry Raiders" group. It has also been discovered by Flayrah that the convention's parent company's Federal tax-exempt status, obtained in 2009, had lapsed, and it had not filed taxes for a period of seven years, while still claiming to be a registered 501(c) non-profit. In this investigative report we can identify the issues that have contributed to the end of Denver's furry convention.
A due-diligence search on the non-profit company, Mid America Anthropomorphic And Art Corporation - parent organisation to the Rocky Mountain Fur Con - shows that it has not filed tax returns between 2008 and 2015. MAAAC promoted itself as a "non profit 503(c) corporation" on the convention's Twitter account. However, according to IRS records, the company's status as an exempt non-profit was revoked in 2011 for failure to file annual information returns. The IRS confirms that they have not qualified as a exempt non-profit under any part of the United States Federal tax code since 2011.
A non-tax related filing was made by the company with the IRS in 2011, to transfer the responsible board officer from Kendal Emery to Zachary Brooks (Sorin) who is the current chairman of the convention. Kendal stood down as chair of Rocky Mountain Fur Con after his 1993 conviction for "Criminal Sexual Contact with a Minor" was revealed.
Despite his resignation as convention chair, Kendal Emery continued as CEO of MAAAC. Last month he sent a Cease and Desist letter to furry fan Deo, following a dispute over the "Furry Raiders".
Using the title of "Chief of Executive Contract Law Officer", Kendal signed the letter with a blood-red thumb print as a seal. This seal, alongside other language used in the letter, is commonly linked with the "Sovereign Citizen" movement, associated with rejection of Federal and State government's legitimacy to enforce laws and taxes. The "Furry Raiders" have also been associated in press profiles with other alt-right and neo-Nazi movements. [More information regarding the conflict between Deo and RMFC at Dogpatch Press.]
When asked by Flayrah for comment, Zachary gave the following statement:
Up until the 2011 year, Rocky Mountain Fur Con filed and had accepted by the IRS form 990-N Electronic E-post card for Tax-Exempt Organizations not Required To File Form 990 or 990-EZ. When the company lost its 503C Status the organization continued to operate as a Colorado Stat Non-profit and contributed money to a registered charity Freedom Service Dogs, To Offset most of our tax Liability.
Despite no longer operating as a Non-Profit organization the staff and Board of directors continued to receive no wages or compensation and all monies earned were put directly into the operation and growth of Rocky Mountain Fur Con, the organization's primary endeavor. In 2015 our accountants realized there had been a lapse in our tax filings that were rectified May 18th, 2015 and filed with the IRS including reporting of back income. The convention has been delayed in filing it's 2016 return but will be doing so shortly.
Prior to this story's publication, Rocky Mountain Fur Con posted the following statement from their Chairman to announce RMFC's cancelation:
Recently, members of our community have taken it upon themselves to bring in external influences of hate, intolerance, and stubborn refusal to compromise. This movement has grown into a community that promotes violence, and it is because of that, it is with deep regret that I make the following announcement:
Last month, we were faced with a sudden and drastic increase in security costs amounting to more than a third of our entire existing operating budget. This cost increase stemmed directly from the very public threats of violence against one another by members of this community, as well as the negative backlash from misinformation spread about the convention, its staff and attendees. Therefore, Rocky Mountain Fur Con 2017 is officially canceled. I will no longer continue to subject my staff and our community to the lies, hate, violence and slander that was disseminated by a small, vocal minority.
All resources relating to the Convention will be used to close our costs and tax liability, and the remainder will be utilized to provide refunds as funds allow to attendees and vendors. Any remainder will go to our standing Charity, Freedom Service Dogs.
My staff, the Board, and I would like to thank the community for ten great years. We had hoped to see this convention continue to grow and flourish but that is no longer an option.
In the hours prior to this announcement, a "Mile High Fur Con" (Twitter; Telegram, temporarily closed) began to be mooted as a replacement.
Update (12 Apr): MAAAC board member Rodney Brian Graff (Scorch) claims that the Denver Marriott Tech Center demanded $22,000 to pay off-duty Denver Police to provide security, after the police investigated comments on Deo's Twitter feed and found them "credible" threats. Meanwhile, rumours are spreading of disputes between Kahuki, Scorch, and Sorin, cumulating in an ultimatum after the cease-and-desist letter.
Comments
These arguments are so interesting to read. I want to take a side, or, even better, point out the reasons why all of you are wrong, but I don't have time to do the research to make sure I understand everything well enough to form an opinion on this big mess. So I am just going to sit back and eat popcorn. Go ahead and keep arguing, and may the person who is right win, and if everybody is wrong, may you all destroy each other.
I noticed that Perri uses the same phrasing as Scorch when they speak of "our fellow furs" and i couldn't figure out where i heard it before, then it hit me.
Only those who are our fellow countrymen can become citizens. Only those who have German blood, regardless of creed, can be our countrymen. Hence no Jew can be a countryman.
or to use the original 1920s NSDAP language
"Only those who are our fellow Germans (volksgenosse) shall be citizens of our state."
Well Regan used to use the phase "Our fellow Americans"
But yeah it is a bit weird.
"Our fellow Americans" in the context a President uses it is fine.
"our fellow Germans"/"our family of fellow furs" is creepy and cultish.
Wait... why does "Our fellow Germans" sound bad? Just because one of them happened to be a Nazi at one point in history?
So what if Merkle ever said this line? Would it be creepy then?
Don't make me go back through years of transcripts of Modern German leaders looking for the phrase.
Straws you grasping at pretty hard, to drink the milk you're getting for milking to try and connect people to Nazis.
For a article about Nazis, this is getting pretty Godwin's Law in here.
that's why I quoted the whole thing.
Because to Perri and Scorch only their brand of furry is the true furry. It doesn't take a doctorate in history to see this.
but hey, if you want to ignore this, that's your choice.
but there's a saying about those who don't study history...
How old are you?
That's a rather personal question isn't it?
I'm over the age of 18 and that's all that really matters.
I've never understood why people felt how many times they've gone around the sun is personal information.
And I've never understood why people felt asking others how man times they've gone around the sun is a question that should be asked when it has nothing to do with the conversation at hands.
It was a lead, I was going to say if you believe that the individual projection onto the whole of the group isn't a common thread in all human groups. If it's not a pattern you have noticed then you clearly couldn't have gone around it too many times just yet.
I was going to say that I have been writing and looking at fandom history by, one can only guess or at least I'd hope, while you were still learning to spell in elementary school.
So let me take one example from our history of one of our leadership projecting the self onto the whole:
Back in the mid-2000s or so, Kage was once wanted to get 2 the Ranting Gryphon to go to Eurofurence with him, and he wanted to go with him to have first class seats. So what he did, in the midst of the financial crisis no less, was to ask on his Livejournal (the social media service of the time) to donate for his first class tickets so he could go.
When people called him out on how selfish that was one person said:
"Hey my friend wants to go to Eurofurence too, can you please start a donation for him as well?"
To which Kage replied:
"As soon as your friend has done as much for the fandom as 2 has, then I'll go ahead and do that."
This phrase is what I call an internal group representative projection fallacy. When you do hold leadership roles (or even in some cases not) this can have a tendency to occur. I think it can happen to even the best of us. Basically you starting using the group name to replace yourself in the sentence.
To me what Kage meant to say here was: "As soon as your friend has done as much for me as 2 has, then I'll go ahead and do that."
Clearly Kage is not the fandom, so that phrase got his foot even further in his mouth at that time. However if you look to manifestos and things such as that you'll always find examples of these. Does that make anyone who does it a Nazi? I don't think so. Anywhere there is a group of humans this will occur.
Which is why I am saying this is milking it. And you need to be careful when milking it. If you've ever played a game like One Night Ultimate Werewolf or Resistance you will know that the best thing you can do for subversive elements is to start getting paranoid and start calling everyone and anyone for any reason subversive.
If you call someone else a Nazi, and they are not a Nazi, that person is less likely to believe you when you correctly call someone a Nazi. Ask yourself why Mr. Actual Nazi down below is enjoying this little back and forth you're having with Perri.
Save one's strength for the actual fight. The last thing we need is a sociological immunity deficiency syndrome that will allow the real wicked of the world to hide behind the decent whom are slandered as wicked.
Felt like I should point out, the above post, in my opinion, is the best comment here so far.
Well, since I know your birthdate thanks to Wikifur, all I can say is that you have no respect for your elders.
Well, how am I supposed to know if I'm to show you respect if you do not inform me that you are an elder.
Guess you only like ageism when it's in your favor?
I'm pretty sure Sonious has known me long enough to remember when I used to publish my stories under my real name. So he might have a good idea that my heritage is of Irish extraction.
Ah but Perri you forget. Anyone can be a "traitor" for the Nazi case. Your heritage doesn't matter. You can bang african american folks and be the most glamourist gay ever. You're still a Nazi.
Lots of other countries had Nazi sympathizers.
Even America.
and your language pattern speaks for itself, to be honest whether Sonious knows you or not doesn't matter to me.
Except that America sympathized with the Nazis initally because they didn't know how evil they were. I mean hell Hitler made Time Magazine's "Man of the Year".
Unfortunately that would require knowledge of history and the Nazi party, something you apparently lack.
Also foul, moving the goal posts. If there ever were posts in the first place.
The German American Bund, or German American Federation (German: Amerikadeutscher Bund; Amerikadeutscher Volksbund, AV), was an American Nazi organization established in 1936 to succeed Friends of New Germany (FONG), the new name being chosen to emphasize the group's American credentials after press criticism that the organization was unpatriotic.[4] The Bund was to consist only of American citizens of German descent.[b]Its main goal was to promote a favorable view of Nazi Germany.[/b] It dissolved in 1941 after Pearl Harbor.
Rockwell became involved with anti-Semitic extremists during the 1950s and founded the American Nazi Party. He staged various demonstrations, ran for president in 1964 as a write-in candidate, and held counter-rallies to civil rights marches throughout the 1960s. That's the leader of the American Nazi Party btw.
even today we can see the American Nazis in all forms including the Furry Raiders.
Welll..I mean if we're going to talk about evil men in history and time's man of the year
Stalin made it in 1939, Ronald Reagan won it twice as did George W Bush and Donald Trump was Times Person of the Year for 2016.
So your argument doesn't really hold up there.
and there is no foul. my initial post was about the exact language used.
https://gizmodo.com/how-american-nazis-used-summer-camps-to-indoctrinate-th-1743...
Actually, truth be told, American banks financed Nazi Germany, even during the war. And everything the Nazis knew about ugenics that resulted in The Holocaust they learned from us, as we at the time had the most agressive and immoral ugenics philosophy in the world. So, if you want to punch somebody for their Nazi supporting heritage, you can start by punching yourself.
I'd say this whole situation is a good example of that. Fighting words can have serious personal and community consequences, even if you have no intention of following through. So before you make that tweet or comment, take a moment to consider the potential results.
except that makes no sense given that my heritage was the victim.
Don't play the victim card while conducting a witch hunt. It's not convincing.
Is the witch hunt the part where you hunt down all the comments you missed, just in order to reply angrily?
Well, I certainly wouldn't want my favorite troll to feel ignored.
So you just don't want to be ignored? I suppose I can understand how lonely it must be to be your own favorite person and all.
Sorry it's just, it's 'eugenics.'
Hello, I'm an actual Nazi. I find this whole hysteria over Nazifurs to be absolutely hysterical. Evidently, none of you degenerates even know what it is we stand for. Can't say I blame you, given how much propaganda you're taught in (((public schools)))) and in (((Hollywood))).
We do not care about swastikas or other logos. Likewise, we do not care about the roman salute or other gestures. We also do not care about using random german words or phrases in everyday speech. All of this is superficial nonsense we stopped caring about decades ago, because there's something far more important at stake: the continued existence of the white race, and securing a future for our children.
My race's existence is being targeted on all sides. Whether it's (((Hollywood))) pushing race-mixing propaganda, teaching our boys to let their girlfriends and wives sleep with Jamal and Tyrone and spreading the lie that Africans have bigger dicks, or the (((news media)) refusing to report on the incurable diseases being spread into the populace at large by the (((gay community))), and of course (((pornography))) twisting the natural sexual impulse into all sorts of unnatural directions. Make no mistake, (((their))) goal is genocide, and (((their))) tactics are hand-crafted to give (((them))) plausible deniability.
So what is it these alleged Nazifurs are all about? According to their own website, promoting their sick fetish and (((equality))). Their founder and CEO Foxler makes it no secret that he's a doubly degenerate faggot. Let me spell it out for you: They're not Nazis by any stretch of the imagination, and yet some of you are stupid enough to insist they are.
And I find your stupidity absolutely hilarious. Keep it up, please.
Some of us want to be Rabbits with tits too.
And some people are Pro-Life simply because white people get the most abortions and thus abortion is losing us the Race War. Great job white people.
I think I speak for many when I say, thank goodness we live in a world where the only power that "An actual Nazi" can abuse these days is (((parenthesis usage))).
DO A FLIP
than you for your honesty even they I pray you hear the Gospel believe and receive repentance from your sin.
I find it funny that no one really wants to challenge the actual nazi. Even though he too said Foxler isn't one of them.
It was pointed out that Neo-Nazi is different from Actual Nazi. Some Neo-Nazi's shave their heads. I don't remember the Actual Nazi's shaving their heads.
But as Foxler says, it's Furzi. Not Nazi.
http://www.nerdandtie.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/04/naziflag.jpg
Um, you do realize what he's talking about there are fictional stories and Second Life role play scenarios. Making Furs Nazis and Bronys jews. Or does that offend you? Maybe you'd find it more offensive if the Nazis were cats and the Jews were mice.
The sad thing is that you're being serious. And in public. For all to see.
You're right. I am being serious.
https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/9/98/Maus.jpg
No reason to since we can't prove that the "real, actual nazi" isn't you or Perri claiming to be one.
I too feel there's no reason too because I never thought we were saying the Furry Raiders are traditional Nazi's. That's insane. Neo Nazi's come in as many different flavors as the rainbow.
Actually, if the admins were asked to check the IP addresses, we could know quite easily if anyone is trying to play two characters.
I have no reason to believe that "ActualNazi" is a sock puppet of anyone involved. No one even cared about their post.
Nobody but the people reposting it all over the net.
so it's not that h didn't know what a nazi was, it's he remained willfully ignorant so he has plausible deniability
You know what? There are real Nazis here now. Why don't you do what even Foxler had sense enough to do? Talk to them and get it through your head who they really are. Then, if you still want to go on twinking their noses, we can all sit back and enjoy watching Darwin's Law in action.
This same Foxler? https://twitter.com/starfoxACEFOX/status/720152189470048256
This all looks a bit weird to me. I've read this and now one or two other articles on it as well as glancing through the comments. The tax irregularities sound like they actually happened. Some of the more emotive aspects seem a lot less convincing or relevant.
Kendal's conviction is brought up because he is CEO of MAAAC but had to step down as RMFC chairman. Okay that's useful but the conviction has no bearing on the rest of the story. Nor does him stepping down as RMFC chairman mean he shouldn't send MAAAC letters, and if RMFC belongs to MAAAC then he is perfectly allowed to speak for RMFC, right? Admittedly that's perhaps more directed at the Dogpatch Press coverage which seems to use that more as a character assassination attempt than because it has any real relevance to the closing of the convention.
Then there's the neo-Nazi aspect which is in the headline but the only mention of neo-Nazi's in the text is a single line: "The "Furry Raiders" have also been associated in press profiles with other alt-right and neo-Nazi movements." Why is something considered so important to be in the headline but not important enough to get more than one line in the body of a piece?
This mentions Furry Raiders but provides no evidence of the neo-nazi aspect (again, weird concerning the title). We don't even get links to the press profiles which are associating the groups. Is this really all because a logo has some similarity to Nazi iconography?
We get told that a seal that was used is linked to the Sovereign Citizen movement but following that link doesn't make it look like a neo-Nazi group. It's apparently involved in terrorist activity and that's a problem but the philosophical question of where the authority to govern comes from is an important one.
So yeah, the aspects of this that seem to be making the most noise are also the ones with the least evidence behind them. Or have I just missed something?
"If all mankind minus one, were of one opinion, and only one person were of the contrary opinion, mankind would be no more justified in silencing that one person, than he, if he had the power, would be justified in silencing mankind."
~John Stuart Mill~
As CEO, Kendal is ultimately the responsible party for ensuring MAAAC correctly filed it's tax returns. Kendal also appeared to attempt to sow confusion as to his actual direct involvement with operations of RMFC, having prior announced his resignation from directing the convention. It is a fair question to raise as to if Kendal is still in direct involvement with RMFC or not.
From a legal standpoint, the organization as a whole is responsible, although whoever they delegated responsibility to could be personally responsible as well. MAAAC could be fined up to 5% of gross receipts; but if there are individuals who wilfully failed to file a return, the theoretical penalty is significant - up to $25,000, and a year in prison.
I doubt that would be imposed in this case, especially given that many organizations lost their federal non-profit status unexpectedly due to Form 990-N revocations… but if the IRS got a hint that it was deliberate, they might.
It's not certain who would be targeted, though. The board appears to have changed over time, and the person initially responsible may not be any more. Ksaru Foxfire was listed as president in 2005, but is apparently no longer involved. Zachary (Sorin) was the initial secretary and treasurer, and given those titles one might expect him to bear some responsibility, rather than the president.
If the responsibility had been delegated to Kendal, and he'd said he'd filed, but he didn't, that be wilful; but that's a big if… "Chief Executive Contract Law Officer" doesn't say that to me. If anything, it sounds like a made-up title. It's not the same as "CEO" – which is not a term listed in the MAAAC articles of incorporation – and I'm actually interested in knowing where you got "CEO" from.
The information necessary to determine this might be in the minutes. We don't have access; but the IRS could demand them.
I think the thing to take away is that board membership is serious business, not a sinecure. If, as Scorch claims, you stay on for years but only attend three board meetings and don't involve yourself in the business of the organization, you're putting yourself at personal risk. So ask for a copy of that Form 990, and the minutes, and read it. If it hasn't been provided to you, why not?
Zachary Brooks identified Kendal as the currently registered CEO of MAAAC when I contacted him about the tax irregularities.
Also, and I may be wrong, it's my understanding that as CEO Kendal has fiscal duties to the corporation that include ensuring that taxes are filed correctly. Also, if MAAAC ever paid anyone a salary during the period where they failed to file, then the "Corporate Veil" can be pieced directly by the IRS over withheld income and FICA taxes towards any person who held a position of “responsibility” in the company. (26 U.S. Code § 6672)
Knowingly claiming you're a registered tax exempt 501(c)3 charity when you aren't is a crime in itself. In this case I wonder how many people actually knew the status had been revoked. The tax filing for maintaining said status is not something that really should be done by untrained individuals. Even though a large part of the book length form (it seriously is) doesn't actually get filled out if you don't pay the staff, it's still something a responsible organization really should pay an accountant to handle. Aside from making sure it's done correctly, it also gives an independant set of eyes on the finances by somebody who can let you know if they spot anything the IRS might find worrying.
If there are any tax liabilities or penalties owed, rest assured those will take priority over any other obligations (or should). The next question I'd ask is whether they met the minimum requirements to even remain legally incorporated. There are some requirements there as well.
Look, Foxler has tweeted at David Spencer asking him for help. And also has tweeted with #AltFurry
http://www.avclub.com/article/even-furries-are-no-longer-safe-neo-nazi-meddling-...
http://www.rollingstone.com/culture/features/does-the-furry-community-have-a-naz...
That same month, Miller tweeted a photo as Foxer Nightfire wearing an armband with the hashtag #altfurry.
Racist or not, typical neo-nazi or not. The word Neo is used for a reason.
neo-
1.
a combining form meaning “new,” “recent,” “revived,” “modified,” used in the formation of compound words:
Mr. "anactualnazi" would kindly take note of that. Some Neo-Christians don't even believe in Jesus and take all Jesus references out of their sect.
Foxler *is* a Neo-Nazi. A Neo-Nazi who has a very different agenda than that of regular Nazi's. Hence the term Neo-Nazi. You can go with "but he said he's not" while the others will go with "but he tweeted he is" and there's going to be no escape from any of those facts.
They can add a rainbow to the armband, but the best they can do while keeping the armband is "trying to take the *symbol* back" like in Clerks 2 when they're trying to take Porch Monkey back and take away its racist meaning.
It isn't going to happen. And for Foxler, it almost seems as if he wants an excuse for "but they're being mean to us and won't accept us :("
So if neo-Nazi doesn't have to have any connection to Naziism what is the point of including it in the name? Couldn't you then say, "The US Democratic party is a neo-Nazi party, meaning that they have a very different agenda to regular Nazis"? If there is no need to link the political beliefs of a group to Nazi beliefs then why call them neo-Nazis when there are better and more suitable labels?
"If all mankind minus one, were of one opinion, and only one person were of the contrary opinion, mankind would be no more justified in silencing that one person, than he, if he had the power, would be justified in silencing mankind."
~John Stuart Mill~
When people ape the forms, fashions, conduct and politics of the Nazis it is correct to call them 'Neo-Nazis'. If people do not wish to be called 'Neo-Nazis', they should not ape the forms, fashions, conduct and politics of the Nazis.
I think it is clear that the Furry Raiders have aped the forms, fashions, conduct and politics of the Nazis. Argument as to their not being specifically and entirely identical to 'Nazis' are irrelevant, this not being 1930s Germany. They are sufficiently aligned with the ideologies of fascism, and model themselves on Nazi fashions.
If they wear a fursuit of a duck, make duck noises, and throw eggs, we can call them nuts.
Seriously, Lamar? You're still hating even after having a real Nazi slap you upside the head with reality?
Get this through your head once and for all. The only people here who have in any way emulated traditional Nazis are the Antifa Furs represented by Kylie and Deo. Stop being suicidally stupid. A paw print does not equate to Nazi regalia anywhere but in your sick bigoted paranoid imagination.
You still don't get that Nazi is not a mode of dress, but a set of beliefs that Foxler and his group are the exact opposite of. And that you Furries who continue to hate on them are being manipulated by an actual hate group taking their attitudes and tactics straight out of the traditional Nazi handbook, creating for this fandom what is essentially a Neo-Burned Fur nightmare.
Unreasoning hatred and condemnation of people based on appearances is against the traditions of Furry Fandom. You will not protect yourselves from Nazis by backing a hate group. So stop hating already. Stop disgracing the fandom.
Thanks to these Antifa Furs the world media is looking at us as ratings fodder again. You've disgraced us in the eyes of the world and ruined all the positive progress we hoped would come from the world's embracement of Zootopia. You've set us up to be portrayed to the world as a hateful, violent community where we take our lives in our hands just to attend our own conventions.
Normal people on the street just see Foxler as a normal fursuiter. There's no evidence they even look twice at his armband. Only Furries trip out over it because they've had all this fear mongering propaganda being thrown at them by Antifa fanatics. They are your enemies. They are a hate group. They are the people you should be scared as hell of. They are the people who attracted real Nazis to this community and made us comedic fodder for them. They are the people who have now been conclusively shown to be full of brown smelly stuff, creating fearful fantasies around a word they don't even know how to properly define.
Stop being an idiot trying to grasp at straws to continue hating and persecuting people whom anyone with a brain and will to look can see are just harmless furs. You've been proven wrong. You have it from the authorities on the subject. There is nothing even remotely Nazi-like about the Furry Raiders. And you are being laughed at by real Nazis for not being able to see that. Which leaves those who continue to hate and persecute the Furry Raiders a bunch of narrow-minded bigoted individuals who are a pox on the traditional values of this fandom.
Face the fact that you were wrong, suck it up and get over it, and maybe we'll be able to salvage something of what you've destroyed. Though, now that the media has its teeth into us again, positive expectations are not terribly realistic. Congratulations on destroying 15 years of progress in our attempts to undo the damage of the last Burned Fur conflict. And thanks a whole hell of a lot for shoving us all back down to the bottom of that hole, just as we were about to be free of it.
15 years of progress? Sounds a familiar time frame. Oh, yes, 15 years is around the time I published this, and the Fandom started to turn around and away from bad behaviour. https://www.flayrah.com/1054/how-i-learnt-stop-worrying-and-love-press
I want to make this absolutely clear to you. Uncritical "Tolerance" of those who ape the forms and politics of the Nazis, have never and never will be a part of this fandom's fundamental community standards. The only reason this got in the wider press, is because a "Sovereign Citizen" Sex-Offender who was supposed to have resigned from all duties regarding RMFC, wrote a stupendously idiotic legal threat to someone in defence of an "alt-furry" neo-nazi group, at the same time as having 'forgotten' to file taxes correctly for seven years.
The Fandom needs to make it absolutely clear to the wider world, that we do not tolerate or encourage such. You, however, seem to insist we must do the precise opposite. Thus, I encourage the fandom to reject you.
You do know tolerance isn't the same as being uncritical, right? But we should absolutely be defending all members of the furry fandom's right to free speech and that includes the right to protection from threats of violence. I actually know looked up antifa furs because I had no idea what they were and the first thing on their Tumblr page is a severed head. Is that really a political message you want to get behind?
We should be seeking to bring people together, discuss differing opinions and bringing peace. What you want to do is polarise debates further while encouraging fragmenting the fandom and society and advocating a world where it is acceptable to physically attack those that you disagree with. If there is anything that we should not tolerate, it is that.
"If all mankind minus one, were of one opinion, and only one person were of the contrary opinion, mankind would be no more justified in silencing that one person, than he, if he had the power, would be justified in silencing mankind."
~John Stuart Mill~
Not to mention if you REALLY want to go there Antifa seems to consist largely of anarcho-communists (red and black flags anyone?) Who have done a number of things ranging from getting events cancelled to beating Trump supporters, blocking traffic, and damaging businesses.
Also remember: liberals get the bullet to. Because to AnComs anyone who isn't a commie is "tje enemy". THAT'S who antifafurs are trying to ape. Just as dangerous as supposed nazis if you ask me.
See, I think Lamar gets it. In regards to how the fandom looks to the wider world, tolerance, etc.
Perri, normal people see an armband like that, and instantly think Nazi accessory. The evidence here from the mainstream press is pretty clear about that.
You keep throwing around the word "antifa" furs, and I've yet to see one in this comments section. However I do see two Sunweavers, being Sunweavers, one who even keeps bringing up the Burned Furs when no one else is, and the Burned Furs went away long long ago. No one remembers except for the people the Burned Furs burned I guess.
I get it that when the Sunweavers aren't going off on their Right Wing LaLa Land, they're going on and on about their fetishes. Burned Furs were anti porn. I don't think anyone here cares about that topic.
Also, on the topic of "being a hater" - I'm not sure you're using that word right. More spamming it mindlessly than anything.
This fandom's fundamental standard is that we tolerate everyone who can't be shown to be hurting somebody. And persecuting people for their appearance is hurting somebody. It's hurting people who are generally harmless. And if you keep on bashing a bunch of pacifist furs who are just sitting around saying "Can't we please just get along?" I won't need to encourage the fandom to reject you.
Wearing Neo-Nazi paraphernalia isn't someone's appearance. It's not something God gave them. It's not something they were born with. It's a willful choice. It's a defiant rebellion.
I haven't seen anyone bashing on pacifists. Nor have I seen any pacifists here.
Politics aren't something you're born with either, nor is religion, really. You always have the choice to convert. And if defiant rebellions weren't protected, you wouldn't be free to carry on your defiant rebellion against American values.
Freedom of dress and freedom of expression are protected American values. If you don't like that I suggest you move to Russia, or better still Iran.
if you are born in a predominately christian nation, muslim you will be christian. especially if your family is practicing.
if you are born in a predominately muslim nation, or household, you will be muslim.
for the first seventeen or so years of your life, you have no choice.
*looks at the orange skinned fascist attacking the press and loooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooools*
Let's see how that first line translates. If you're born in a Christian nation and you're a Muslim you will be Christian. Right . . . ^^;
The second line is somewhat more readable. If you're born into a Muslim nation the religion will be forced on you. Somewhat accurate, but still does not justify your earlier comment of things that God gave you, as even under those conditions, religion is something man gives you. And it also doesn't take into account that kids often reject such stupidity long before the age of 17. So it's still a choice to be irrational, even when backed by social peer pressure, and not at all the same thing as race or gender.
Orange skinned? *Looks around* No idea who you're talking about.
Kylie means Trump.
Kylie's post is also insane.
Some of Kylie's posts are smart. Some are insane.
I think none of the first three lines are accurate and true sentences.
And then she references Trump. Hilarious. *sarcasm*
At least she's accurate with Trump though. Just, joke was a little lopsided. A for effort.
I resent that remark. My post, minus one word that was the result of me typing it as I was thinking of it while wanting to say another word is not insanity. It's my fingers moving faster than my brain. That's all.
I resent the idea that if you're born in a Christian country that you're Christian. If your parents are Buddhists, you are born a Buddhist. It doesn't matter if you live in an Islamic country or not.
That's not how it works, maybe that's how you were taught it works, but that isn't how it works. And no, you aren't forced until you're 17 at all.
That's why it's insane.
Perri's part where she agrees with you on the middle one, is just as insane. That's Perri though, she wouldn't know.
yes, you are. unless you are emancipated you are a minor. which means you are under the supervision and rules of your parents. which means if they want to drag you to church...guess what?
now go away little troll, the somewhat adults are talking here.
The "adults" who stalk each others facebook pages and all that. Yeah. Adults.
I guess your parents can keep you from being a Furry too? It's pretty much the same thing. When I was 13, I decided I was agnostic. When I was 14, I became a furry. CAN YOU TELL?!
Nevermind that my religion didn't match the countries religion to begin with. Religion is every persons personal choice once they make it. I don't know what country you live in, but it sure doesn't seem like America. Even if it wasn't America...America is far from the only country with freedom of religion.
I think the better argument is that you have a HIGHER chance of adopting parents' or a nation's/community's belief, rather than it being a matter of "Oh you're in a christian household so you'd end up christian".
I mean, yeah you still get loads of people who deviate from what their parents believe either way.
as long as you live under their roof and aren't emancipated, yes. they can stop you from associating with what they deem undesirable.
last I checked Pittsburgh is in America. and you're also taking what i said and making it not what i said.
Maybe your parents have some super powers that mine and my various friends parents didn't have.
You're right with that second sentence, and that wasn't my intention, so I'm going to back up here.
To be fair, my parents were abusive and the foster families simply didn't care. but I do know that legally your parents make the decisions for you at the end of the day until you turn 18 or are emancipated.
Also how quickly you copy Perri's words should slow you down to think about if you want to be like Perri or not.
oops. Brain moved too fast for my fingers.
Let's try that again....
if you are born in a predominately Christian country such as Russia. Or Italy. your chances of being from a Christian family and therefore Christian increase significantly.
If you are in a predominately Muslim country like Iran. or Saudi Arabia. or Iraq your chances of being from a Muslim family and therefore Muslim increase.
eh, I'm along the lines of Einstein, who said:
TL;DR--i don't believe in god since there is no evidence.
I do agree that religion is man made. So we've got that in common.
I see what you meant here now. That comes off completely differently.
yeah, that was on me for typing too fast while trying to get my point across.
Where does this sound familiar....
oh...right...
"He (Shopenhaur) called the Jews "the Great Masters of Lies" Those who do not see the truth of that statement or do not wish to believe it, will never able to lend a hand in helping Truth prevail."
hmm....
"Couldn't you then say, "The US Democratic party is a neo-Nazi party,"
Plenty of people do. :|
Though more so the Republican party.
Didn't you get the memo?
It just really sounds like they're moving the goal posts at this point as to what qualifies as "Nazi" or, now, "Neo Nazi", despite the fact that historically NeoNazi usually referred to folks who were trying to revive Nazism.
Neo or no, I still find it hard to believe any organization of Nazis would accept a gay, mixed heritage fellow who's mated to a POC.
Ah, but they'll just move the posts for that, too.
You mean like how Perri keeps moving the goal post on "evidence" about Foxler?
Because supposedly there was "no evidence" but then, these weren't enough?
http://www.avclub.com/article/even-furries-are-no-longer-safe-neo-nazi-meddling-...
"Also, if you’re pleading for respect for diversity in your desire to dress like a Nazi, maybe don’t send an empathetic tweet of that desire to Richard “I’ll always be the white supremacist who got punched in the face” Spencer. It looks bad."
http://www.rollingstone.com/culture/features/does-the-furry-community-have-a-naz...
"That same month, Miller tweeted a photo as Foxer Nightfire wearing an armband with the hashtag #altfurry. "
Of course, because she's a Sunweaver and they just want to come to the defense of like minded people.
In Second Life, do you play a blue vixen with gratuitously big tits?
you know the Burned Furs would have said that last bit with as much disdain as I read here.
Actually, the Burned Furs were creators of such characters, and had such professions as Bondage Furniture Maker. Like the Antifa they were total hypocrites, trying to gain control of the fandom by decrying the very stuff they wanted to promote. It's well documented.
Then there was the last Burned Fur revival, Burned Fur 2 later changed to Improved Anthro to avoid negative feelings. Their first big project for "Improving" the image of the fandom was to set up a site called "Yiffy.tk." And when they were asked to protest the embarrassment that was "Yiff, The Musical," they backed it, rather than protesting it. As their leader said, "This is exactly the kind of thing we want to promote."
So now here you are, trying to gain power of dictator over the fandom on behalf of Antifa by jumping on the bandwagon of putting out propaganda that the fandom is Nazi infested, just so you'll be free to act like Nazis.
Different decade, suspiciously familiar tactics.
Well, you could. if you were a trolling trumpkin hoping to get a rise from people. But I'm going to assume, perhaps incorrectly, that the average American can tell the difference; much like I would expect the average to understand what a stand-in logo is.
Didn't you say you were going away?
To their credit Perri also said she was going away (something to the effect of "The Bunny Has Left The Building").
So I guess I'll take two shots here in "Debate: The Drinking Game" - Take a shot everytime someone says they're leaving but they return to say something. 1.5 shots if they're doing it to "have the last word".
Yeah, I did. But they held out more carrots. Honestly, I'd rather not be here. The more I see of this the more I do not care if this fandom crashes and burns. Whatever we had once is ruined. You lot can have it for your den of hate. I'm leaving the fandom. Don't drink yourself sick celebrating. And, please, send no more carrots to my E-mail to bring me back.
if you stopped earlier, you could have written a whole novel to add to those other 8 nobody wants to read
*Bites off end of carrot and spits it in Patch's face.*
You realize you can disable email notifications of replies. And that you're essentially just saying, "Well you guys aren't letting me have the last word so there."
Which is incredibly mature for a 55 year old. Master Yoda you must be. Yes, ooh.
Mine mine mine! *whacks with a stick* Or I will help you not!
So salty
Now now now, what did I say about being professional?
For shame, really. It's sad to see that you don't handle yourself in a more respectful manner. But then again you probably don't care. That kind of attitude will serve you well in your next life.
Perri, last night I sent you a private message via your Fur Affinity. Not sure if you had seen it yet.
hmmm...
Don't block me on Twitter then come back to try and talk to me here.
i didn't do anything on twitter. my twitter account was kyliedfox. i have since deleted it because of this place.
besides, I wasn't talking TO you until right now.
Aah, those wacky neo-nazis! They are everywhere these days!
I swear, I saw one under my bed just the other day.
Well, I'll be...
I swear the more and more I look into this the more I see the Furry Raiders part in this seemly overblown. Look I don't support hate, and am not a fan of the Furry Raiders. But despite what had been said, I could find nothing but rumors. I admit I only asked a few people who were actually at RMFC last year. But the few I have spoken with who were actually there, and have the badge still to prove it. Tell me there was nothing out of the ordinary in 2016 furcon. Then everyone seemly including 2 The Ranting Gryphon goes on they are to blame rampage.
Hate groups are an easy target, but we have to play it fair as that is only right.
as we can see here https://pbs.twimg.com/media/C9kLo4QWAAEs80l.jpg he did, and if we believe that he didn't know what a nazi was (despite being in a group of furries interested in WWII and German History) then how did he know so much? and yet willingly still still wear the regalia of a nazi?
I'll admit.
The fact that y'all - the SAME FOLKS - have been going at this for a week over is both funny, and sad. Give it a rest, there are no winners here.
Hear that Perri? What Niko says applies to you (and I, and him) in every way.
Wasn't aware there was something to be won. The fact is, I'm having a really bad week, and I'm making sure this traitor troll from SL gets to share as much of my misery as possible. And if things don't improve in my real life so that I'm able to concern myself with other things again, I may be keeping this troll on the hook until they cart me away.
Calling me a traitor is telling. How dare I let out those Sunweaver secrets!
Honestly, I don't want you to feel bad. uwu
I hope things get better in your real life again.
Karma is something you can always pay back into with good deeds.
careful, wouldn't want you to have a stroke
See I feel like this is either sarcasm or passive aggression, and I feel like it goes beyond the discussion or arguing viewpoints etc.
You're a person, Perri is a person too.
She has expressed she's having a hard time, there's no need to pile on or hurt her.
neither. just a reminder that strokes apparently run in her family
I disagree. she personally attacked me by calling me a Jewish Nazi. Thus, she's reaped what she sowed.
I did in fact miss out on her saying that. There were a ton of comments before I decided to comment myself, and Perri's in particular tend to be mini novels. I do my best to read as much as I can, but I did gloss over that.
I can easily say that makes it a horse of a different color.
In context, I was called a Nazi by a person bragging about being Jewish. So I returned the compliment. Being as Nazi now seems to have been given the new definition of "Anyone who doesn't agree with you."
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2AhGYo9TExU
you're free to go back and read the context. it's comment 159.
In all seriousness, getting into fights online is not going to help your health offline. Stress isn't good. Try to find something more positive to do.
Believe me, I'd like to. But I've been trapped here having to constantly keep an eye on my mom since her stroke a week ago. Which means I'm pretty much stuck in front of this laptop, unable to get upstairs to do anything productive.
During this week I've put on 10 pounds and am now literally in the sleep apnea zone where a stroke is a real possibility. So I wouldn't need any encouragement to get out of here if I could. Life just has me pinned between a rock and a hard place right now. I'm not anticipating surviving very long if this keeps up.
But, at least, if I'm going to go down, I'm going down fighting the enemies of democracy. I don't expect it will make much difference in the over all battle to stop communists masquerading as anti-fascists from ruining the world, but it's better than just sitting back and watching innocent furs get bashed, wondering "Why doesn't somebody stand up for them?"
Well. I suppose I'm genuinely sorry you're getting scammed by the troll group known as The Furry Raiders then. If only you could see the forest through the trees.
Your time would better be spent standing up for the innocents you crave to find. Maybe I'll point you to them on my real account so you'll be open to it.
All you're achieving by arguing with each other is mildly annoying the regulars, and trashing your comment rating average (in turn decreasing the visibility of everything you've said, or will say, on Flayrah).
It's got to the point where half the comments are folded. This is a sign to take the conversation elsewhere.
You aren't trapped on this website. You can go to a different website where there is no fighting about furry raiders. Maybe watch something you like on youtube (and NOT read the comments.) Click off the little box that notifies you of comments and attempt control of yourself.
Seriously, this isn't saving the world from anything. It's getting into pissing contests on the internet.
Perri left this morning. Kylie apologized to her. You're the first comment since I said it was a good apology.
Oh I missed that! It must be somewhere in these piles of comments...
Page 2. Very end.
I found it and it seems things escalated.
Goshdangit, Perri :| You coulda had it.
So then why are you still commenting?
go outside instead of being on second life.
I mentioned earlier that I don't even exist very much in second life. I'm just coming in and seeing the less-than-stellar debates - if they can even be called that - that have been going on here the past week.
Honestly, you all debate like a bunch of highschoolers that just discovered the internet. For shame. I expect better from folks who want to debate serious topics like the shutdown of RMFC.
Coming from the person who has been standing up for "la la la I'm not listening" and "I'll stop when I get to have the last word" and then ultimately, "So it turns out I'm actually a member of the Furry Raiders *on top of being a member of the Sunweavers*" ?
Yeah we're so high school. I can just feel the pus oozing from our pores.
To be fair, I didn't know she had joined the Raiders' FaceBook page until she posted about it here. So at least give me that? ^_^;;
Hey, I've conceded a couple other points to you. No problem doing that now.
It might surprise you guys to know that page is getting pretty popular, people joining every day. But then, we are giving them a hell of a lot of free advertising, aren't we?
No, YOU are giving them free advertising every time YOU post on your FB post about how much "The Furry Fandom" (your words) isn't what you thought it was.
ironically, the same time of thing an AltRighter would say about America now and a Nazi would have said about Germany post-WWII.
hmm...
I want to believe.
To paraphrase Nat King Cole, The bunny looked the commie right dead in the eye and said, "Your story's so touching, but it sounds just like a lie."
move on, perri. for the sake of your health.
besides, it only sounds like a lie because it doesn't fit your narrative. which is your problem, not mine.
Well, she is friends with Foxler. Even you would have known that. Come on now...
Actually no. Fb seems to have stopped showing people friending each other as statuses. I didn't know until I saw Foxler comment on one of her fb posts and saw Perri was friends with him.
I wouldn't say we were exactly friends. I have literally hundreds of contacts on FB I don't even know, or that I watch just to stay informed.
Being put in a position of having to judge people means you have to be able to see what goes on behind closed doors. Foxler let me in because he judged me to be trust worthy, as in not to be screen capping things to be taken out of context and such. Or making private conversations public.
Anyone who can be seen not to be supporting this insane persecution crap can just as easily get in there and see for themselves how harmlessly hippie-like those people are in their beliefs and motivations. I mean, seriously, this is like calling Yes a Nazi band because they refuse to change their name to No.
I just want to point out one thing since I've been called a "neo-burned fur" (nevermind that there was a BFII so the term Neo makes no sense in the context)
my best friends are as follows:
1. a foxtaur who happens to be transgender
2. a blue fox with four arms, four breasts, sometimes a taur, sometimes cloned, sometimes hyper.
3. a red wolfskunk alien who has 3 breasts wide, two plus heads, four arms, and multiples of many other body parts. can be a taur, hextaur, naga, etc is a herm, shemale, female, sometimes male, or no gender, who is hypermuscled, hyper other places, macro and into latex.
In fact, I myself am a hyper and multifur. and transgender. and am very open about it.
all of them are public about this. and in fact, i would consider Burned Furs to be a hate group for this reason.
So calling me this is as stupid as calling me a Nazi.
But that's what you get from a "writer" with "8 novels" on her website.
You just played the "My best friends are sexy furs" card after saying that the people you accuse as Nazis always say they're best friends are black, gay or whatever. That was pure hypocrisy, and totally unnecessary, as I was actually asking the troll from Second Life if he/she was a specific avatar I've had issues with in the past. It was not a comment against sexy furs.
God, you people are clueless. You're humorless, as well. Don't take every one-liner so friggen seriously.
Baka, baka, minna baka!
You know what? AltFurs you can suck on my salty balls. Antifa Furs can gobble the knob at the same time. Both your groups should be made unwelcome at EVERY other furry convention because you're both composed of immature, whiney, selfish gits. Unfuck you all and get out of our perfectly nice fandom and find something else to infect because we don't want you here. Seriously, if life is that bad, slice up the river, not across the road and nobody will mourn your sorry corpse. That goes for Neo, Foxler, and the followers of both. No sadness, no mourning, just kill yourselves and stop wasting oxygen. In short die and go away!
I'm still unaware of any Antifa furs being here. The only person ranting and raving about em is Perri. She also rants and raves about the Burned Furs and the Hippies. Perri joined the Furry Raiders now so we can see the writing on the wall there. She sees dead people. They're everywhere!
Quick question, Crim, how would you know a person is a "antifa" fur?
would they have an ID card?
a birthmark?
what?
I think we'd know because they'd say so. While everyone has pretty much already said that they aren't. Or that they didn't even know what antifa was.
You know what a person's affiliations are by how they act. If you go around calling people Nazis when they obviously aren't, that's what Antifas do. If Antifa activities piss you off, you're a normal person. If you're in Furry Fandom, gay, anything but white, in a relationship with anyone not white, doing anything that is not consistent with Nazi beliefs, one is not a Nazi. And, even if you're white, you have to be selling white supremacy to be a Nazi.
Seriously, how stupid does one need to be to not be able to recognize what political affiliations a person has by what they're spouting? It's not about who you know or whose rights you stand up for. It's about what kind of agenda you're trying to push.
Crim is right. Antifa has nothing to do with this fandom and has no business being here. AltFurry only exists to be in opposition to Antifa. If they insist on pursuing this BS we should insist they take it back to the human world and stop trying to force Furries to be involved in it. I'm only here to protest some nice furs being attacked by people who think Antifa justifies disrupting the peace of the community. Stop allowing furs to be attacked and have ridiculously false labels forced on them, and let us get back to just being furs. Just say no to politicizing the fandom.
Let's look at the press release RMFC issued. They say 3 things caused the furcon to fold. Fights sparked by the Furry Raiders, they assume riots might break out. Given I can't find anyone who can back this up, I have to assume it's a lie. I know some say it's a coverup by the con, but really a near riot and no one ever heard anything about it?!!! One word Impossible at a convention, in fact impossible at any convention. Even The Ranting Gryphon has taken back his original statement, he is saying like me there has to be more to this story. Like the tax issue #2 on our list, did you know the weekend after that statement was released a Colorado state official, went on record saying that they would be willing to work with the con to solve any tax issue they might have.
Looks like none of the reasons hold up, like the sex offender. Colorado is like any state with a sex offender registry, I typed in the names of all the board members and found nothing.
In my opinion the press release is nothing more than the board trying to save it's own ass. None of the claims hold up to close examination. Now if we speculated on the reasons why RMFC is no longer around. That would be wrong. We have to stick with the facts and nothing else.
The fact is that already the con was developing a shit reputation. The Furry Raiders in 2016 had already left a bad taste in con goers mouths, and the drama was incessantly ramping up on twitter.
The Furry Raiders were being problems for other people like the Foxtrot Club and local furs were feeling alienated from their own convention.
Even without that stuff, there's more to say. However it's just the dry run of the mill stuff about being ran poorly for this reason or that.
I definitely think, bottom line is that they couldn't afford the $20,000 security cost.
and yet, i searched Emery, Kendal (Ray) and found him no problem! Including his current address, any aliases he used, his piercings, date of birth and date of conviction.
wasn't that hard to do either.
So either you didn't search or don't count him even though he is chairman of the con's parent group.
Except, Perri, that's profiling. which is a naughty thing to do.
about as stupid as a 55 year old disabled writer with 8 novels on her website thinking that everyone who disagrees with her on whether Foxler is a nazi or not is an antifa.
to quote from Wikifur:
so yeah....that's why i pointed out I'm not a burned fur. I love the sexual nature of the fandom and believe that it should be expressed. Doesn't mean I'm all about sex either though.
now, and i do mean this genuinely Perri. Move on. I don't want you to have a stroke. I don't want you to die. We may disagree on Foxler, and despite my earlier rushed to type comments to get the last word, we're a part of the same fandom. There's no reason for you to give up.
You know you're just proving my point by getting technical about it and showing it makes no sense to call you a Neo-Burned Fur, just like it makes no sense for you to be calling me a Nazi. You set the precedent. Anything I want to label you as does not have to make sense with history, the nature of your web content, anyone who might like to vouch for you or anything. You've established the rule that there can be no arguing with a label once placed. All evidence to the contrary is to be ignored. So why bother even putting it up?
You're just wasting your time trying to tit for tat me with meaningless BS. Both accusations are now permanent on this site. Any troll can now come along and screen cap BS that can be used to attack either one of us, and just like with Foxler, no amount of explaining that we were just BSing around will stop any screen cap from being taken seriously and at face value by the mindless masses of the net.
So, unless you want to apologize for you're incredibly unethical behavior in trying to brand anyone who disagrees with you a Nazi, I'm not going to give a care if anyone comes in here later and starts screen capping my counter BS to be used to ruin your life later. That's what you've done to me, and you've no right to complain that I did it right back to you.
Try to catch a clue from this. Even if my BS label doesn't stick on you, if you keep trying to do this to people, one of these days someone will come up with a BS label that will stick to you like superglue and get you banned from every site and event in the community for something you never were and never did. All because you helped set the precedent that any accusation, no matter how absurd, does not need to be logical or substantiated to be accepted and acted upon.
Now, if you want this to be done, I'll just drop this last link on you and go. If you don't respond to it, you won't see me here again. If you do, you probably still won't see me here again, because I'm turning off notifications.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8TxsjU_pMDo
So if Kylie apologized to you, would you then apologize back?
Of course it's not something you're required to do. I don't think you're a Nazi, despite knowing your kinda, Sunweavery political views. I don't think they're Nazi's either. I don't think the Furry Raiders are /traditional/ Nazi's. They're kinda dweeb Nazi throw ins. The fascination of dressing like Hitler, making their FA thing Hitler's birthday (and admitting to it - easy for me to link again), and saying they should be free to dress like Nazi's. Oh and btw, love and embrace all.
I could give a crap about their logo, it's their actions that have been the proof and evidence for me. Not just different members, not just Foxler, not just that one suspended admin, not just the heavy room block booking or the fights at last years RMFC. (shouting fights, not physical fights)
I'd be right there with you defending them if it was just their logo. But it's really not. I see a blue dragon on youtube claiming it's just because of their logo. That's incredibly short sighted and ignorant. Ignorant meaning "not within the know", not meaning "arrogant idiot" - as that is completely different. He's clearly intelligent enough to take the time and look up the mountains of evidence I've referred to above.
I derailed. I don't think it's fair, and it's certainly not nice, to call you a Nazi because I think that's not accurate. So I do think Kylie could apologize, and then I think you can apologize back.
We'll see how I feel after this comment.
The difference is I'm using a name that has no facebook, no twitter, no FA, no anything attached to it. I purposely didn't register on this site and stayed a visitor. Could they track my IP? Sure. But I didn't attach myself to anything for a reason. Will I now? Under a different name, sure.
You left yourself exposed though and for that I apologize. Your mother suffered and now you have to live with this.
Am I sorry that I labeled you? Sure, yeah. I shouldn't have labeled you. you didn't deserve that. I should have been more friendly.
Will I apologize for how I view Foxler and the Raiders? no. you? yes.
Outside opinion, while I know Perri, and don't know Kylie. I think that was a good and fair apology.
Whether Perri apologizes back or not, what Kylie just posted definitely lets me view her in a more positive light. Positive overall.
Well, yeah, I guess I do need to apologize to Kylie because, contrary to what she said above, she had a Twitter when this started, and has since deleted it, probably because she felt it would be too dangerous to continue having one, after Niko reported to me Kylie was talking on twitter about stuff that was being said to her alt identity on my Facebook. And he gave me this link to the item. http://archive.is/9jv7N
So, Kylie was Kylie on Twitter, and is still Lou Gagliardi on Facebook. https://www.facebook.com/lougagliardi Hence she does have an identity to be destroyed, and she is not anywhere near as proficient at protecting it as she makes out.
So, Kylie, if you destroyed your Twitter because you were afraid this stuff was going to come back on you, I do most sincerely apologize. https://archive.is/iZboE I saw this whole business as an intellectual attempt to prove some points. No true hostility or harm of any kind was intended, and I never had any intention of following you back to your sites to attack you.
So, if it's not too late to reclaim your Twitter account, please do. Most sorry if anything my friends on Facebook said scared you. Be at peace. And have a nice day.
What a shitty way to respond Perri. :|
"Pacifist" my ass.
She's still on Twitter as @Minttig.
By the way folks, don't forget to support Kylie's book on Amazon. Only 99 cents, and she could use some nice reviews.
https://www.amazon.com/Lou-Gagliardi/e/B00O8KFZYY/ref=ntt_dp_epwbk_0
Furries, we ain't quite "Pacifist", more like "Passivfist-Aggressive"
I don't know. Doxxing is a bit past passive aggressive. First Perri friends Foxler, then joins the Furry Raiders, then she doxxes the people speaking out against the Furry Raiders.
Just sends a bad message.
I'm not sure what the definition of doxxing is. But I'm pretty sure it has to do with hacking to find info that's hidden. Any info I know about Kylie she dropped in my lap. I mean, she said she had one published story in an anthology, and she trolled me with an account using her real name. So, if she was doxxed, she doxxed herself.
But I really don't know what you mean by being passive-aggressive. I think I'm being pretty magnanimous, telling her not to worry, and even going so far as to promote her book after she tried to label me a Nazi.
Don't be so suspicious. I'm just a harmless little bunny. People who try to screw me over have nothing to fear.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cCI18qAoKq4
Well yeah, I guess if the worst you can do is send friends to troll them on the internet they don't have much to fear at all.
I also said it was in an anthology for a wolf sanctuary.
but it's fine. you did what you had to do and as soon as I found out what you and others did, I did the same. from a legal perspective.
Kylie, I just, I wouldn't talk anymore at this point. Basically if you're silent you look like the "winner" now. You apologized, you backed off, and Perri pissed on it like in Animal Farm.
As I said before, you people have no sense of humor. And it's no fun casually joking around with people who don't know a joke when they see one.
Fine then. If you want to be so all-fired bloody serious, my serious commentary on the situation is here. https://www.facebook.com/perri.prinz/posts/10213000203310373
lemme translate for those folks who can't bare to look at Facebook. You're welcome in advance and I accept blowjobs or cold hard cash as payment.
The Translation:
Here's my serious post where I call people retarded and legit piss myself out of fear that communists are taking over the fandom but then suddenly elevate nazis to an equal level and also piss my self in fear that there is a great war between communists and nazi furs and I AM CONFUSED AND THIS WILL RUIN THE FANDOM.
Also I use the term essay Jay double you as an insult even though I am theoretically a grown ass man.
/translation.
inb4 perri sucks his own dick by claiming intellectual superiority unless someone else says big boy words he doesn't understand and then will call them out for sounding foolish
Ya'll communists! Do you hear that, Flayrah?! Communists!
I'm so glad there's two of us now. Perri is a her though.
Batshit disabled senior citizen floods Flayrah with diarrhea, screams at invisible communists.
It's nice this site is reluctant to ban hated rejects, but it would be kind to put her out of her misery.
It's funny as all hell really. You lot running around like chickens with their heads cut off because somebody has an armband that might resemble a Nazi armband if you spin it hard enough, but a group of terrorists instigating violence under real Communist flags sets up a branch office in your community, for the openly stated purpose of teaching furs how to be violent, and you don't even notice. You think it's worth scoffing at, or even jumping on its bandwagon for s--ts and giggles.
Well, fine, scoff at it. It's your conventions that are being lost. But as far as Foxler is concerned, you are rendered pure hypocrites. And we'd be laughing our asses off at you, if the situation wasn't so potentially serious.
https://twitter.com/AshAgony/status/830226413949218816
You folks really should change the name of this site to Efrafa.
As pointed out multiple times, "don't nobody give a fuck about the armband though"
Whether it's Foxler physically shoving people, Furry Raider admins getting themselves "suspended" for racism, or random Furry Raiders having shouting fights with people at last years RMFC, the shit is in the pudding.
You realize the con would still be here if they had put their foot down and not allowed them access??
Thanks for giving us Foxler's opinion I guess? He did point out it took over 1600 views on his FA page for someone to notice he put down Hitler's birthday, with #WinForYou as their commendation. But uh, you're a Furry Raider now I hear. And you clearly fit right in with those people anyway.
It's not really fair to treat Perri as paranoid for seeing communists involved in this situation--Deo is a communist, mopsoup (who commented earlier) and I are communist, and there was at least one more-mainstream-than-furries-could-ever-hope-to-be news article that described the situation as "the classic fight between communists and nazis, but more interesting because furries are involved" or something similar. So the connection is there.
Well. Then again posting weird rants about how communist SJWs are taking over the furry fandom because of Twitter and stimulant ADHD medications after an internet argument with someone who doesn't appear to be a communist at all doesn't go your way might possibly be considered paranoid.
Edit: Incidentally, Perri's Facebook friends list appears to be host to all kinds of members of the totally-not-using-fascist-imagery club:
Quite the company!
Again, a sense of humor is a good thing to cultivate.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sL4tM23lNjI
Oh, btw. Thanks for the honesty. But I have to say, I can't recall the last time I was more unhappy to be proven right about anything.
You could have just asked.
Here's my take. Foxler is an asshole. He's probably not a dangerous asshole, but an asshole nonetheless. Setting up a group using thinly disguised Nazi trappings to be edgy is disgusting. His attempts to say this isn't what that is and that he 'didn't know' are just plain idiotic. That said, it's not illegal to be an idiotic, neo-nazi, asshole (at least in the US). That said, I think any convention would be well within it's rights to tell him and his Furry Raiders group they were unwelcome and any depictions that a reasonable person would see as being Nazi related were not going to be tolerated.
As for the other side in this. Deo is equally an idiot and is demonstrably dangerous. What Deo did could very well be a crime. They made terroristic threats that were serious enough to be found 'credible' by law enforcement. Deo should be arrested, charged, and put on trial as an example that there are consequences to one's actions. This, of course, is unlikely to happen. I think any convention would also be within their rights to let Deo and the Anti-Fa group know they were equally unwelcome as a potential danger to the convention.
Groups formed based on what they are against rather than what they are for tend to be drama pits and usually don't last long term. People get tired of hearing the negative spin and start ignoring it. Ask anyone who was in the defunct 'Burned Furs' about that. This one sadly caused the demise of a furry con which will likely just inflate their internet balls even further.
I'm not saying you're wrong about Deo. But the "threat" found 'credible' by law enforcement was the mention of Deo getting shot. Not the Deo punching someone in the face.
So mostly on the same page as you here.
Which makes me ask what you think of Perri joining the Furry Raiders and doxxing other posters in this thread?
I'm not going to comment on Perri though I may ask her about this since I know her in SL. Enough people know where I live and my real name that I'm not overly worried about being doxxed if that's actually happening. Regardless, she has the fortitude to sign her name to her posts here which is more than I can say for you.
1) foxler is now on video admitting to paying for membership in a real, formal neo nazi group
2) deo referenced Richard Spencer being punched in that week's news. Punching nazis is a celebrated pop culture trope about the most common cartoonish villains there are, from daffy duck to indiana jones. Making such a comment from out of state regarding a con she wasn't attending isn't a credible threat, however disagreeable. The police did not care but they did find the gun speech to be a credible threat. Comparing them is false equivalence even simply by the standard of the police response.
3) anti-FA is a philosophy. The Furry Raiders are a group with a defined leader.
4) the Burned Furs are inflating the negativity on behalf of the Furry Raiders. http://dogpatch.press/2017/04/20/false-rumor-rmfc/
Can we get a link to that video? Not real until it's real type of thinking. You know how it is.
nope, first amendment. she didn't say anything about anyone in particular. 'these nazis' could be, as Patch mentions a comment about Richard Spencer. Should have been playing Wolfenstein.
except that isn't how it works.
it'd come down to he said vs she said and reasonable doubt. A reasonable person would have seen what happened in the news that week and concluded that she was talking about Richard Spencer.
The tweet had @'s in it. Including @FurryRaiders. I just wanted to be patient and let Crim respond to my question. There's no need to go down the Deo road that is very well traveled and everyone already has publicized all answers and opinions to.
This is now the most commented article on the site in but 2 weeks.
God help us.
Mostly because of Perri's radical Sunweaver neo-SJW movement.
Which is everything from entertaining to sad. Next she's going to post "Swatted" and we're going to have no idea who she's referencing.
God help the morbidly obese, 55-year-old, housebound troll role-playing as a sexy blue bunny. Who floods this place with diarrhea out of self-hate about being a failed writer. Someone get her a hobby.
As someone who has debated many people, including Perri Rhodes, over the course of my life I will say this.
If your goal was to make them see the Furry Raiders as a bad organization, then phrases such as this are what drove them to basically embrace them instead.
So, thanks for that.
Maybe if this fandom would actually try and enforce some tough goddamned love then this wouldn't be a problem.
Round 'em up, boot 'em out.
Take all the people who feel the need to join an aggressively antagonistic group and fucking shun the ever loving fuck out of 'em till they finally take the hint go the hell away.
Sad because you're fat? Push away from the table fatty, don't join a nazi group.
Whoops, writing just isn't panning out for you? Try to improve your goddamned craft. Don't fucking waste everyone's time caping for edgelords under the paper thin cover of 'FREEZE PEACH'
Upset because your con got canceled because it was run by incompetents and formerly by kid didlers? Don't blame it on the Essay Jay Double Yous! Understand that your public goddamned functions need to be run by people with charisma and intelligence.
And finally, if your 'edgy' comedy isn't finding its audience here and you're mad because people are upset because they have no sense of humor, take a goddamned step back. Move the greasy lard rolls that block your beady little blood shot eyes, and try to fathom that maybe, MAYBE, some people in this fandom are shifting their priorities to better accommodate the diversity of the fandom, you fucker.
Be better. DEMAND BETTER.
I'd rather there be thousands of Chew Foxes or Boomer the Dogs or anyone else like 'em that the fandom turns into pariahs over one edgelord, or Furry Raider, or Perri.
The former, sure tell me all about your six arm, twenty breasted, albino sparkle dog. Its good for a laugh.
The later? Gather up, make jokes to each other using whatever racial slur you're only 'ironically jerking off too', and then slither back into the sewers where you belong you miserable crap goblins.
Tl'Dr I don't mind fuckwads clumping together because then I know who the fuck to avoid. It's like people who wear MAGA hats. I'm all like, sweet! Thanks for letting me know you're a trash heap!
And let me state (event though I shouldn't freaking have to) that I'm not a Nazi, or or Communist, or the dreaded specter of the long dead burned furs (may they rest in yiff)
I'm just a dude who really wants people to start paying him in blowjobs or cold hard cash for that free translation service.
The next one will cost a blumpkin.
"Maybe if this fandom would actually try and enforce some tough goddamned love then this wouldn't be a problem.
Round 'em up---"
Yup, let's stuff them in trains man, that'll show those Furry Nazi groups!
Before you showed them "tough love", Perri was not a member of the Furry Raiders. Only after you went after their writing and weight, which had nothing to do with the debate at hand, you probably literally triggered something within their mind that those that oppose the Furry Raiders are comprised of bullying people that have probably tormented them since childhood. It's more than likely possible, as 80% of furries have dealt with bullying of some degree in their lives.
This played out in such a way where I literally started theorizing that some of the Anons here are actually Furry Raiders knowing that if they make those that oppose Furry Raiders look unreasonable and bullying that they could convert Perri to their own side.
I have no evidence of that of course, and hey, people could just be assholes. But given what happened in the 2016 election this year, I'm starting to become weary of said tactics on those that are easily emotionally manipulated.
In other words, if your end goal was to have the Furry Raiders be dismantled, you instead made them stronger. Now they have a writer in their ranks. One that is willing to go into lengthy and weary debates with people. I can tell you as someone who has gotten into debates with this individual once in awhile over the past decade, they do have considerable skills with debate. You may underestimate Perri Rhodes, but I find them joining the Furry Raiders considerably concerning, hopefully in time they will realize that they went in for the wrong reasons, but it will take time now.
So perhaps, as you say, people that don't know what the heck they are doing should take a step back and leave it to those that do. Lest those with the best of intentions, but the lack of skill to execute, do more damage to their cause than good.
Well played, I like that last line.
Couple of things though, this is my second or third post as an anon in this thread. I'm fairly certain Perri was Raider snogging before I entered the thread. Gonna change my to anonbutts for minimizing confusion.
Okay.
That being said, I don't give two flying fucks about whether or not a bunch of edgelards join an edglard group. You are trying to tell me that if I engage and legitimize a piece of trash it might become a beautiful butterfly and improve the fandom. Those poor misunderstood misanthropes would really just want to be loved and they'll hardly call anyone a kike if you just treat them nice.
Nope, sorry, as an asshole myself, I know the Schrodinger's asshole argument is bunk. I'm not going to give some shithead a chance that deep under his or her or hir sad encrusted mucus shell lies the heart of a true spirit. I'm going to say, "why as an asshole I see that you're causing pain to this group of people and are being rather amendment about your right to do so, so would you kindly eat this bag of genital wart covered dicks and slither off to whatever rock spawned you?"
If they throw up their hands and say "Look at what you've done to me world! I'm joining this group of nazi's because YOU'VE MADE ME THIS WAY" Then fuckem, they were NEVER a good person to begin with and the fandom would be better off without them. I just want fandom to detach them from their teat and let them either thrive or starve out in the wild.
But instead we have a bunch of limp wristed ass kissers who go "No, I understand, you were called a poo poo face someone highschool (or whatever drama from a literal life time ago) It's okay now, even though you're a grown ass whatever, to act like a complete twat-waffle towards a huge swath of people.
Strawman: Hidely hoo fuckers :D
*Audience laugh track*
Strawman: But Anonbutts, aren't you being a twat-waffle towards a huge swath of people
Why yes strawman, yes I am! Because you can't win fights by playing nice, you certainly don't get through to people by putting up with their bad behavior while patting them on the ass.
You know what does make a difference? Showing people who refuse to learn from there dumbass mistakes the goddamned door. I'll let you in on a little secret, sometimes in real life I fuck up superbad, and then I get called out for it. A few times were pretty goddamned humiliating. You know what I did? I put on my bigboy pants and I learned from my mistakes.
But not before that got me banned.
My point, the whole entire essence of my argument is to deny shitheads a platform in the fandom. Let's be real here, 2 got banned because of his shitty humor. That's fucking phenomenal! More of that! Tougher Mods, less leniency on fuckwad behavior.
Strawman: But anonny! What if yooooouuuuu get caught in the crossfire?!
Then I guess I'll have to quit being such an asshole :)
Looking into other people's opinions, 2 got his act canceled (2 is not banned from the con) for standing up for Richard Spencer at the time he got punched, as well as the Furry Raiders multiple times since they made the news for their RMFC room bookings last year. Since "it's just an armband" and "hate speech is free speech" which is pretty stupid to say.
Also at the time, I too was saying "it's just an armband" because that's what I believe.
2 is my friend. I can't say he knows he fucked up here, all I can say is that it's unfortunate that these are things he got behind. The FurryRaiders /do/ get violent+confrontational+shouty with people in real life depending on the situation, and that hadn't been pointed out to 2 yet.
So basically he had all this "nazi drama" and, of course Anthrocon wants no part and no connection.
I don't think any of them are dumb enough to think that 2 is a Nazi. This is a case where shaving his head isn't so smart though.
@Sonius, I still say you and Lamar are the smartest people making posts in this thread.
I think Perri becoming a Furry Raider may actually end up with her realizing they're bad.
However since most of their direct and addressable issues stem from real life, I do consider she's not going to be with them when those things happen.
@Crim, as far as me being Anon here. A rarity. Call it being smart at this point, because I know Perri. This was because of Sunweaver involvement, and from experience multiple times now, I don't want to have a Perri or Zorro target on my back. I'll just get to continue having my happy conversations with her this way. In places where this shit never comes up.
Unlike above Anon, I don't consider myself an asshole and I do consider myself Perri's friend. She doesn't listen to her friends anymore than she listens to her assholes I'm afraid.
@Perri, Neo-SJW, remember this term. You and I do not see eye to eye on this situation. You have a chosen and willful ignorance towards anything bad that the Furry Raiders do, but I believe that's only going to last until you feel you're the "only one" who sees one of those times. Until then they're the innocent and bullied depressed group of furries you crave defending. This is why it's a Neo-SJW moment for you. Once you come back down to reality, I don't even think you'll be here to tell us. Perri will be silent. Perri will quietly separate herself from the Raiders and we'll mostly have all forgotten in the interim regardless. See you at Cutlass. Hopefully during happier times that won't get shit on by crap like this.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ra6tlGpT0Oo
I learned more about you in this thread than I ever did being your friend.
I'm worried about you.
"If they throw up their hands and say "Look at what you've done to me world! I'm joining this group of nazi's because YOU'VE MADE ME THIS WAY" Then fuckem, they were NEVER a good person to begin with and the fandom would be better off without them."
Preach it. Perri is being the horrible person she came here to be in the first place. Because she is desperate for attention and can't earn it any other way.
Denying shitheads a platform in the fandom is a noble mission and one that everyone should practice. Shithead defined as people who come here to make it a worse place. Her choice.
"Perri was not a member of the Furry Raiders" in name only. But Perri has always been unwanted and unliked here because of her horrible behavior. That gives them a strong common bond.
So Perri chose to crap all over this forum and act like a flaming pile of garbage and you choose to defend it. Because this place doesn't ban people who really deserve it.
Bullying? There's no such thing as a troll/victim.
"Now they have a writer in their ranks" - whoop de doo, another horrible person outs themself. "considerable skills with debate" - where? When? If she had any talent it might be worth a minute of thought but it just makes it that easier to know who to tune out.
I don't see Sonius defending it. I think most of his points are valid and with the positive disposition of not being very involved in the "flaming pile of garbage" that spilled out before his eyes.
Perri is a person with a lot of energy. Energy goes places. It is of benefit to the Furry Raiders one way or the other. The effect won't be decided in this thread, but with time.
https://youtu.be/8IpmIGbH-Ic
https://youtu.be/td-lor1xQ3I
https://youtu.be/VeIkcBsN4uw
https://youtu.be/xBUfqfsQP7A
https://youtu.be/qg67-XKPw5M
you mean like she went after my writing? then outed my facebook page and my new twitter account?
So it's okay for her to do that to me but if someone else does it to her, well it's their fault. okay then.
they've had a writer. he's friends with foxler and has been commenting on articles defending Foxler since March as far as I can tell. and then he does the opposite of what he posts.
and yet all they've done is pull out McCarthyism, and other crap from their butt.
Sonius didn't say what Perri was doing is okay. Remember what I said about not needing to speak anymore? Stuff like this works against you by putting you in a more negative light.
What Perri is doing is not okay. Going after Perri's weight/disability/etc. is also not okay, not to mention it works against whoever makes those comments to begin with.
I think what I had to say about her being a Sunweaver, and that groups past views being in line with the AltRight adds to the debates and conversation. It's not an attack or an insult.
She's made it clear she's here to be a Neo-SJW and fight for the Furry Raiders. We don't have to argue with her anymore, she'll be posting right alongside the account "The Furry Reich" and Foxler and maybe eventually she'll realize these are a bunch of assholes on her own. Until then, from what I can piece together from what she's said, 2TRG was pointing out how an armband doesn't make you a Nazi and that this group hasn't done anything apart from making an armband. Well, maybe the ignorance here stems from not being in the Colorado area where the local furs have been dealing with the Furry Raiders for well over a year now. Neither Perri, nor 2 have been out there to deal with them. In 2's video he says he asked people "What are the Furry Raiders doing that is bad? Besides the armband?" and basically no one could tell him anything. "Wha bla I uh, they're BAD!" At the time, we didn't have Foxler shoving people. At the time, I even said myself "There's nothing worth getting upset over yet. Wait until the con."
So I think Perri hopped in with that point of view. "I heard about these people from 2 already so I know they're just innocents being attacked for their armband!"
No.
It's been well documented in this comments section now, the armband is an itty bitty "who cares" compared to the other things myself and others have linked. I've gotten phone calls from people at RMFC who witnessed shouting fights from Furry Raiders.
The Furry Raiders drive hours to places they're banned from to fight with other groups of furries. That isn't innocent nor adult behavior. Hypothetically they get unbanned, then what? They get to hang out with a bunch of other furries they hate and have nothing in common with?
Why not just have their own hang outs? Why force an us vs. them onto the rest of the furry fandom?
And why aren't you asking those questions Perri?
It seems to me I heard in some interview where Foxler talked about the shoving. I don't remember what video it was in, but as best I recall he was saying he went to a convention without the armband to comply with the rules. But he was still effectively blacklisted. So Antifa inspired bullies got behind him and pushed him repeatedly, but by the time the story got to the net it was him who was pushing people.
Such a thing would be difficult to verify, but I tend to buy it as likely, given the observable behavior of Antifa activists on the net. For example, the one who practically shoved all his/her personal info into my hands and then complained about being doxed when I pointed out he/she wasn't as good at protecting her identity as he/she was bragging.
It is for this very reason that nothing an Antifa affiliate says can be taken seriously without corroboration or backing evidence. Antifa affiliates must now be considered dishonest by nature. And everyone still posting here at this point is pushing the Antifa agenda.
It's insulting that you ask me "Why don't I ask these questions?" when I've been asking these questions for weeks and getting nothing back from you lot but "Furry Raiders are bad." To which I say time and again "Prove it." And all you can do is keep reposting the same screen caps that have been addressed and explained ages ago.
What pisses you guys off about me is the same thing that pissed Simo and Xydexx off about me when I investigated Burned Fur. I wouldn't take their word that certain people were bad. I had to track those people down and evaluate them for myself, and because I wouldn't take their word for stuff they trolled me and tried to blacklist me. That of course did not stop me from finding the people in question and determining for myself that they were indeed assholes and hypocrites. But I remained on the blacklist for not submitting to bullying from the Burned Fur opposition.
Now here we are doing the same political crap again, only this time the people I investigated were found innocent, and you guys were found to be the assholes and hypocrites. And again, what really pisses you off about me is my determination to investigate things for myself, rather than taking your word for who I should hate. It really burns you up that I couldn't be restrained from tracking down The Furry Raiders and finding out who they really are, because your political deceptions can only continue if people don't know who they really are.
The Fandom has already decided against you Antifa supporting fools. They see you as nothing but a bunch of big bullies. And bullies are one of those rare things Furry Fandom has not an ounce of tolerance for.
https://youtu.be/8IpmIGbH-Ic
https://youtu.be/VeIkcBsN4uw
https://youtu.be/xBUfqfsQP7A
https://youtu.be/D1dXrJfYblg
If the Furry Raiders do not stand for bullying, then they MUST distance themselves from all Nazi symbolism. Period.
I have explained how the organization can begin to distance itself from Nazi symbolism in the video you are well aware of at this point, but others may not be so: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tg8EOnJaX94
If the organization is against the bullying of others, joking about ties with Adolf Hitler the world's most historically notorious "bully" is hypocritical. Yes his "I'm 128 years old in 2015 Easter Egg" counts as flirting with being Adolf Hitler in my mind.
Why is is only when the mainstream press came forth that he went: "Well I'm not REALLY a Nazi."
If you ever find yourself in a position like that, you need to ask, "where did I go wrong and how do I correct it?"
Because if you choose not to, then how can one claim they do not tolerate bullying when the organization they defend has, at this point, willingly tied itself to one that had millions rounded up and killed. Is that not the most extreme type of bullying in existence?
Statistically, almost all of us have had to deal with bullies in our life time. But if any one of us can even begin to believe we can claim that we were as traumatized in our childhood as this girl was, then we are just lying to ourselves.
As you say, furries don't tolerate bullies. This is why many furries aren't tolerating the Furry Raiders. Their current behavior had tied them to the most bullying government in World history.
So they can either get serious about distancing themselves from the symbolism by burying the maroon, white, and black arm bands, or they can choose to be continued to be seen as much a group bullies as the group they CHOOSE to emulate.
The above is not a threat, it is as you say, furry fandom.
"As you say, furries don't tolerate bullies. This is why many furries aren't tolerating the Furry Raiders. Their current behavior had tied them to the most bullying government in World history."
I want to reiterate here, it's the Furry Raiders behavior. Not appearance. Not prejudgements from people, but their specific behavior.
Perri:
Why not just have their own hang outs? Why force an us vs. them onto the rest of the furry fandom? Why bully themselves into someone else's fur meet?
And why aren't you asking +them+ those questions Perri?
Okay let me be more specific:
What do they say to "Why did Foxler shove people at Fox Trot?" ??
What do they say to "Why did you tell Fox Trot that you wouldn't wear your armbands, and then wear them anyway? Wouldn't that force confrontation?"
What do they say to "Why are you insisting on driving to a place you're banned from to fight with people in person?"
Then there's the part where Foxler says the Bronies are like the Jews in his "Furzi" world. Doesn't that mean he wants to kill Bronies?
I get it, you want cell phone video recordings of things. This is mostly stuff that happens in real life, so you taking a 'nyah nyah you can't prove anything! Where are the chat logs?' is pretty disjointed from reality.
I saw someone else say there was now video evidence of Foxler being part of a real Nazi or Neo-Nazi group that you have to pay to get into. I'll ask Patch for a link. For now, to me, that's a future post.
Also, if I make a whiney video of my furry avatar making annoyed expressions and arrogantly proclaiming my ignorance to everyone else, will Perri link it in her post please? https://youtu.be/FA6Y5GRnWtY?t=110 I happen to feel 2TRG was treated somewhat unfairly too, classic Anthrocon lying to their patrons to avoid saying anything negative on top of that. 2TRG is also taking the unfortunate disposition of not having seen everything shitty the Furry Raiders *do* and I realize his video speaks to you, but leaving out all the behavior, and only looking at "armbands don't make you a nazi!" (which is true, they don't, and when 2 made that video, that's all we knew! Times are different now.) just because you desperately want an "innocent" to stand up for, it isn't going to magically create such a group to stand up for. He got suckered, you got suckered, it sucks, and anyone/everyone deserves better.
Then there's the part where Foxler says the Bronies are like the Jews in his "Furzi" world. Doesn't that mean he wants to kill Bronies? +as a joke.
Yeah, that probably just means he doesn't want them hanging around his group. Or what? What does it mean? Clearly it's a joke. What did it mean to him though?
I don't know, why don't you ask Art Spiegelman what was up with making the Jews mice? And there are Bronys in The Furry Raiders. These two guys look like they really hate each other, don't they? https://youtu.be/PxoAtXb6-Kg
Well. I guess it's okay you don't know. I wouldn't be able to know either.
Observe these images. First The Paw Print Of Furry Pride
http://orig10.deviantart.net/54f4/f/2010/178/c/5/furry_pride_badge_by_zakorath.jpg
And now the flag of Antifa.
https://www.fireandflames.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/06/flag_afaction-577675a6.jpg
Don't get the point yet? Look at this one.
http://img14.deviantart.net/b0fa/i/2015/211/9/5/antifa_flag_design_question_by_a...
Communist armband bearing a symbol commonly displayed by Antifa
http://photos1.blogger.com/blogger/1650/2072/1600/Nazbol%20Symbol.2.jpg
Now let's look at The Furry Raiders logo?
https://ququ-media.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/04/Raiders-678x381.png
Now who is it that needs to distance themselves from Nazi imagery?
Again, Sonious, Hitler is not the most notorious bully in history. This guy is.
https://s-media-cache-ak0.pinimg.com/736x/e6/73/87/e673870643faea6f1da05e399245c...
It wasn't when the mainstream press got into it. It was the day after the Zootopia event.
If you ever find yourself holding a handful of lemons, you need to ask yourself how to make lemonade.
The Raiders didn't tie themselves to anything. Antifa did. If not for them The Raiders could just have explained the similarity away. But from day one they had people telling the fandom what to think about them.
It's Anti-Semitic to use Anne Frank to justify your bigotry and persecution of Ricky Raccoon. That's what none of you hypocrites get. It's not Foxler I came to defend. It's Ricky. And how much should I bet not one of you even knows who I'm talking about, because not one of you can even be bothered to find out whose lives you're trying to ruin.
BS, Sonious. There have been WW2 Furries in this fandom from the beginning. And you can't very well do WW2 without Nazi imagery. Are you seriously trying to call every Furry who has had a Nazi character a Nazi?
We're not even talking about a Nazi character here. We're just talking about an armband, with a paw print. Something that can only relate to creative fiction. And you are daft if you think the fiction writers of this fandom are going to sit still for someone trying to tell us we're Nazis for the kind of stories we choose to create. That's where crap like this will lead, and you ought to know by now how this fandom reacts to censorship.
I wouldn't let the Furry Raiders knuckle under to your bullying if they wanted to. Those armbands are now symbols of the rebellion against you lot. Antifa, the new Burned Fur in town, thinking it can get away with dictating ultimatums to a fandom it doesn't own. The Furry Raiders stand for creative freedom and inclusiveness, which is consistent with The Paw Print Of Furry Pride. It is the fandom itself you insult with these threats and dictates. And I just wonder if that is your intent.
What else would we expect from a Communist based Burned Fur style take over? Another divide and conquer strategy? You're out to set this fandom against itself again, and you've already drawn in the media to demoralize us again. But you've already failed, because Furries are already turned off to Antifa.
We're not playing your game this time. Make all the ultimatums you want. We're just going to mute you and ignore them. And maybe, when it starts to get lonely because no one is listening to your hateful doubletalk anymore, it will sink in that bullying your fellow furs is a really, really bad idea.
Shut the fuck up and get a real hobby, Perri.
Since my post popped up down there, and I forgot to add something to it, I'll reply in the correct spot.
What the hell does the armband have to do with Foxler shoving people?
What the hell does "Antifa" have to do with Foxler shoving people?
Oh some other group exists on the internet somewhere, I guess I better go exert my physical dominance over some stranger who has their back turned!
If I asked you to finish my sentence for me, and then I said "A B C D E F..." would you then say "Antifa! I knew it! Invading everywhere even my mini games! Stop trying to tear down those armbands!"
"I wouldn't let the Furry Raiders knuckle under to your bullying if they wanted to."
So now what, you're the leader of the Furry Raiders? Guess all the hard work the Mr. Miller put into that organization was for nothing then, if it was so easily mutinied.
You're seeing hate where it doesn't exist in me. The Raiders however, are opening themselves up to hostilities and undo burden for their organization by flying a banner tied with a heinous group. And instead of putting it away when people started to question it, they doubled down and tripled down. Mr. Miller placing "Easter Eggs" of Hitler's age, but according to his Rolling Stone issue he has "no clue" about Nazism...
And the best excuse you can come up with is to ignore all but the paw upon it. Ignoring the fact there are thousands of furry banners utilizing the paw which do not receive any disdain from other furries as this one has. You really are blind as to the reason? Even though it has been explained to you a dozen times?
Then you just choose to be blind, and that is your choice.
But I am hopefully that in time, your paranoid delusions about some sort of Red Scare uprising in the fandom is relieved from your mind. Because it's as delusional as your claim that it is the paw upon the band that people have issue with. You keep using "the fandom" as a synonym for the Furry Raiders. Well if that is your fandom, then have at it. At least tell us when we can expect a damn manifesto. The Burned Furs at least gave us that.
Don't confuse impatience with hate, you honestly don't know what real hate is, and neither do I. And to be *Frank*, I hope none of us ever do from people with any REAL power.
Perri, it would behoove
(ha!)you to look into the history of Antifa. The first organization to refer to itself with that name, with that logo (the one with the two flags, the armband one I'll address in a minute) was a German group created in 1932 to rival the Nazi paramilitary organizations that of course existed at the time. It is not only not Nazi imagery, it is historically, demonstrably anti-Nazi, as in German Nazi Party Nazis, imagery. The fact it is on a red flag (the red flag) does not suddenly make it Nazi imagery, and is not the issue people take with it. In fact as has been stated multiple times the armbands are far from the Raiders' biggest problems.As for the hammer-and-sickle armband, that's a Nazbol thing, and it's not commonly worn by anyone, let alone Antifa. (Antifa is opposed to Nazbols because they are white nationalists.)
Many times in these threads you have insisted that you have "researched" things and not found what everybody else can see clear as day. It's no surprise that you continually show you investigative skills to be seriously lacking in other areas, too.
"Now who is it that needs to distance themselves from Nazi imagery?"
As long as it's not you and I.
Stalin almost commit genocide? Have you been playing too much C&C Counterstrike?
Really what did any of that have to do with Foxler shoving people? Or Furry Raiders shouting at people? Or any of the bad things the group *does* and not wears?
You're obsessing over the logo and armband.
"We're just talking about an armband"
We? Who's we?
I still have yet to meet these mythical "antifa" who I never heard of until you started saying it here on this comments section. I keep assuming it has something to do with Syrian refugees though. Not going to Google it. Willful ignorance FTW!
"There is no force more dangerous in this world than willful ignorance and conscientious stupidity." - Dr. Martin Luther King Jr.
Educate yourself. This is "Antifa": https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Antifaschistische_Aktion
They've even made the news lately when some of the Anti-Trump and anti-Alt-right protests their members love to join suddenly turn violent and destructive, people get punched out just for disagreeing with them and property is set ablaze. I suppose knowing that would require the Herculean effort of typing CNN.com into your browser, simply back-breaking, I know.
"There are two things I know are infinite, the universe, and human stupidity, and I'm not entirely convinced about the universe." - Albert Einstein
"There is no force more dangerous in this world than willful ignorance and conscientious stupidity. - MLK
I find it amusing that you tar all Anti-Fascists as a violent mob, at the same time as quoting in your signature two people who were self described Anti-Fascists. No, not amusing, the other words... Annoyingly disingenuous? "AntiFa" is an abbreviation of Anti-Fascist, it is not an organised group. Deliberately conflating all AntiFa action with the organised national Antifaschistische Aktion groups, is incorrect. It is similar to saying that American Liberals and Australian Liberal Party members must be the same because they use the same words.
The people involved in the violence were flying the German Antifaschistische Aktion flags, wearing their uniforms and chanting their slogans. QED. I swear to fucking God, this takes less than 6 fucking seconds to look up but I have to do this shit for you?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xBUfqfsQP7A
But hey, putting words in people's mouths in order to defame and debase their arguments sure makes you look intelligent, right? OH WAIT...
"There are two things I know are infinite, the universe, and human stupidity, and I'm not entirely convinced about the universe." - Albert Einstein
"There is no force more dangerous in this world than willful ignorance and conscientious stupidity. - MLK
Hostile much?
He accused me of lying and lumping in all Anti-fascist people with rioters and mob mentality, which I never even so much as hinted at. I find that accusation baseless, extremely offensive, and highly inflammatory. So yes, I responded to his hostility with more hostility.
"There are two things I know are infinite, the universe, and human stupidity, and I'm not entirely convinced about the universe." - Albert Einstein
"There is no force more dangerous in this world than willful ignorance and conscientious stupidity. - MLK
Is this really worth getting upset about though?? Can't just say, "oh, I didn't realize I did that. It was not my intention." ?? We need some mellow vibes, relax, take it easy. Less extremism. Less Radical Sunweaver Neo-SJW Antifa Nazis around please.
You do understand that a link to youtube video rant is... er... not an authoritative citation right? Again, you're conflating all AntiFa's with individual AntiFa groups. Also, your linked video actually confuses and conflates "Antifaschistische Aktion" with Black Bloc. So...
And even then, your comment still sums to "Ignore the Fascist leanings of the Furry Raiders and their antics, instead let's talk about how bad the Anti-Fascists are!"
Hey I can do this too!
"Ignore the Fascist leanings of the Furry Raiders and their antics, instead let's talk about how bad the Anti-Fascists are!" - Lamar
Tell me again what my doppleganger in this bizarro alternate universe you live in says, he sounds like a complete asshole. For the record, I strongly, intensely oppose fascism, Neo-Nazis are shitheads, I don't give two fucks about Foxler or his attention-whoring, and I think the more furries flip the fuck out over uniform fetishists (which is what many Nazifur groups in the early 2000's originally were, believe it or not) the more interviews with Rolling Stone and gratification Foxler will get. I believe he knows exactly what he's doing, and people are more than happy to feed his ego when they retweet his crap.
You want links to the actual videos of Antifa members punching people out? Okay, lazy-bones.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Tg0yjU6PaoY
I'm really starting to hate the star system here already. One fucking downvote and my post is instantly invisible? That's bloody insane.
"There are two things I know are infinite, the universe, and human stupidity, and I'm not entirely convinced about the universe." - Albert Einstein
"There is no force more dangerous in this world than willful ignorance and conscientious stupidity. - MLK
I feel like this conflict didn't need to happen, and that you came in kinda pre-pissed off. At least that's how it looks to me. The laid back approach definitely helps more. Lamar wasn't being a dick, and you kinda had an intense allergic reaction.
I tried to suggest you take a more laid back approach, and you've upped the anti instead. Listen to some Kenny G, relax, work things with Lamar back to neutral. It's doable.
My heart rate spiked by over 25 BPM, no way to measure my blood pressure but it's probably not faring too well either. I can't stand having words put in my mouth or accused of siding with someone politically when I never stated anything, I'm sure if he'd come at you with similar claims you'd be just as pissed.
I hesitated for a long time before posting because I saw this whole discussion has been a shitstorm of drama and hostility since the article was even posted (and let's face it, the article itself is REALLY poorly-researched and biased as all hell in the first place).
A better recap of the story would be: Deo makes a Richard Spencer joke toward the Furry Raiders, with no intention of ever so much as attending RCFM in the first place. Someone responds by implying that they or someone else might bring a gun to a fistfight, she flips out and spins the whole thing as a gun threat to RCFM staff, she gets an extremely stupid SovCit Cease and Desist letter (more on how idiotic that was here: http://lawyersandliquor.com/2017/04/free-furry-of-the-land-when-sovcits-and-furr... ), the local police charge the hotel $22K for added security, the hotel fronts the cost to the con, and the con admins vote and eventually dissolve the con.
The rest is all pretty much bickering about who is to blame and unrelated politics.
Was that level-headed enough for you?
"There are two things I know are infinite, the universe, and human stupidity, and I'm not entirely convinced about the universe." - Albert Einstein
"There is no force more dangerous in this world than willful ignorance and conscientious stupidity. - MLK
Well I guess it doesn't matter because thanks to Lamar's 3 downvotes I'm now effectively hellbanned from this site, so nothing short of an assload of 5-star votes on multiple posts will make ANY of my posts visible to anyone for the remainder of my account's existence. Damn, is that ever a shitty way to run a forum.
"There are two things I know are infinite, the universe, and human stupidity, and I'm not entirely convinced about the universe." - Albert Einstein
"There is no force more dangerous in this world than willful ignorance and conscientious stupidity. - MLK
"I'm sure if he'd come at you with similar claims you'd be just as pissed."
I know I'm Anon, so it's hard to follow. People have been constantly trying to do that to me since I started posting, calling me a troll or an asshole, or a "traitor" to the 'beloved' Sunweavers. Then there's the parts where I get confused with the other anon posters who are directly being trolls. And, yeah guilt by association comes up. It's all good.
My first two responses to you (which are below these posts) I don't presume you're anything but trying to show me the history of what is known as "Antifa" and why Perri posts the way she does. There was some detectable snark, with the cnn.com thing, which is admittedly not showing me anything of Antifa, but I also don't frequent news sites. I think it was forgiveable snark, and I didn't want to get all off topic with it, so I tried to focus it into a "still, why is this relevant to how people proclaim the Furry Raiders are innocent when they are confrontational and can get violent?"
Yeah I was snarky because you were deliberately saying "Willful ignorance FTW!" while trying to maintain some kind of moral superiority in the argument, if anything, being unwilling to research the group you're being accused of belonging to hurts you more than anything. Though, as your flamewar with Perri shows, she's behaving just as poorly as the people she decries, by lumping you in with extremist viewpoints she's no different than the SJW's pointing at anyone that disagrees with them and calling them a Nazi.
She brought up other people too, like 2 Gryphon, whom, while he has said a few things I either find harshly stated or even outright disagree with, I remain a devoted fan of. I don't know if you were among the people that tried to crap on 2 in the previous threads when Perri brought him up, but regardless I can easily state that he's never encouraged or demanded anyone seriously commit suicide, and the video rant everyone points to was a specific case of a teenager killing herself over cyberbullying, her suicide method and note specifically intending to shame and humiliate the cyberbullies for the rest of their lives by putting her blood on their hands. 2 essentially said that committing suicide over words on the Internet is incredibly stupid, and that she deserved her fate. He cited the fact that people worldwide in far less favorable living conditions will walk many miles a day simply for clean water and the bare minimum of food, that people will claw and scrape to their last breath to survive, and that they show a much greater survival instinct and appreciation for life than she did. To sum it up as he did: If you're going to treat your life like a piece of garbage and throw it away, don't expect anyone else to treat it as precious when you destroy it.
2 has a very self-determistic view of life, and given his upbringing that makes sense. In a response to one of his letters about self-esteem, he said something similar, and actually rather uplifting: You are the only person that can determine who and what you're capable of, and only your own opinion of yourself truly matters. He said you can't go through life basing your self-esteem on the validation and approval of others or you'll always be miserable and sycophantic. A hypothetical example he gave is when someone with zero self-worth and severe depression throws themselves in front of a subway train to send some kind of powerful message and make someone give a shit about their life and pity that their life ended so tragically. You know what happens? Everyone, from the conductor to the passengers, hates that fucker's guts for delaying their train, making everyone late to work, and giving several people PTSD symptoms from seeing their corpse explode into viscera right in front of them. Not one person involved is likely to give a damn or play a violin in their memory. That's the cold, harsh reality we live in, and it's best for people to realize it and come to terms with it.
"There are two things I know are infinite, the universe, and human stupidity, and I'm not entirely convinced about the universe." - Albert Einstein
"There is no force more dangerous in this world than willful ignorance and conscientious stupidity. - MLK
"I don't know if you were among the people that tried to crap on 2 in the previous threads"
No, I like 2. I think the situation he is currently in is very unfortunate. I actually see it as an accessory to this, as he stands up for the Furry Raiders as if their only "crime" is their armband. As multiple posters keep trying to explain, their increasingly bad image has far more to do with their behavior than their apparel.
I don't think he should have lost his show, I don't think he should be labeled a Nazi by people, I also don't think he should be putting himself in such situations. Standing up for that guy who got punched, in a sense joining in with the "hate speech is free speech" people, it's a mistake. I understand where 2 is coming from, and I don't think he means to be like the "hate speech is free speech" guy. I've known 2 longer than he's been doing the stand up act at Anthrocon. I hope things go back to normal.
Actually I am against most hate crime legislation and do think that freedom of speech has to include hate speech because once you start censoring people for opinions, then any opinion that is unpopular can be censored once people consider it destructive. It is an unfortunate consequence of free speech, but an important one. I have had countless debates with Canadian and European furs when I decry their government(s) for having Holocaust denial laws. In America you have the right to be completely wrong and an idiot, and the consequences for such hatemongering are largely social, not criminal. Jailing people who believe the government is out to censor them for their hatemongering PROVES THEIR PARANOIA RIGHT because you're actually oppressing them. That's the textbook definition of thoughtcrime. Way to make martyrs out of the Neo-Nazis, guys.
I'm going to get a reputation for quoting people but it's still relevant: "I may disagree with what you have to say, but I will defend, to the death, your right to say it." - Voltaire
"There are two things I know are infinite, the universe, and human stupidity, and I'm not entirely convinced about the universe." - Albert Einstein
"There is no force more dangerous in this world than willful ignorance and conscientious stupidity. - MLK
Yeah. The guy got punched for being an asshole. Not locked up. I sure wasn't arguing for a legal repercussion. Mr. "Hate speech is free speech" sure had his karma catch up with him too.
Furries are the government now!
They have every right to believe what they want, doesn't mean I'm not going to tell them they're wrong.
You'll have to forgive me for not being my usual pleasant self. Considering the rude and hostile attitudes that are shared by the majority of posters here, being nice would be worse than a waste of time.
Yes, I think in this case a mass generalization is called for. Being as we have the word of actual real world Nazis for the fact that no Furry can ever be a Nazi, it seems obvious that anyone still looking to persecute furs by accusations of being a Nazi is doing it for disreputable reasons. And I see no justification for beating around the bush about it.
Mr.ActualNazi also said that no bunny could ever be a police officer. And we see how that turned out.
Uh, for Frith's sake. You're seeing Nazis in Zootopia now? I'd think you were a sad case of paranoid delusion if I didn't know you were just a troll being obnoxious purely for the sake of being obnoxious. And, before you try turning that around on me, who's the cowardly Anon here and who puts enough stock in their position to back it with their main fandom identity?
who's the one that read what he didn't say?
I guess that drop out nature is starting to show.
This isn't a general forum. It's the comments section of a particular news story. The intention is for comments to remain closely related to that story. At times, they may diverge in interesting ways, worthy of continued discussion. Once those threads become stale, or devolve into arguments between individuals or ideological groups, the rating system is designed to discourage them.
By itself, a single low individual comment rating; a low average user rating; or a low thread rating will not fold a post. The combination of two or more of these factors may cause them to disappear. In your case, a user with no history came in and started arguing on a topic which most readers tired of a week ago. More established commenters are also burning through their karma by continuing to participate in this discussion.
The rating average is retroactive, so your participation in other stories will raise it. Indeed, a faded comment elsewhere is likely to be rated higher if readers believe it to be undeserved in that case.
That hopefulness is assuming everyone will click a faded comment. I know when I see those on other message boards (since as you said, "forum" is somehow the wrong word to use, when I find them pretty much synonymous?) I assume "Oh, it's a troll/spam post" and am much more likely not to click. I do have guilty pleasures in some cases and want to read the flamebait, but I can't speak for everyone there.
I agree that karma systems work great to discourage flamewars and troll posting, but as we can see they're very easy to abuse. I'm sure you've heard all of this before so I won't waste any more time discussing it.
"There are two things I know are infinite, the universe, and human stupidity, and I'm not entirely convinced about the universe." - Albert Einstein
"There is no force more dangerous in this world than willful ignorance and conscientious stupidity. - MLK
Flayrah does have tools for reviewing voting patterns, and on rare occasions I've removed votes which indicate a very clear lack of consideration of content, or even an attempt to circumvent the site's vote restriction systems.
In such cases, the net effect can be the reverse of the abuser's intention, as others may have tried to "balance out" the rating in the intervening period; and those votes will remain.
A common pattern in flame-wars is for people to down-rate each other. This is a lose-lose situation; a cumulative reduction in visibility is applied from parent comments, so not only is karma lost by both parties, but fewer people will see either person's comments. Slashdot stops people from rating conversations they've been involved with; and while Flayrah does not, it's often best to leave the evaluation to others.
The system is not perfect, or instant, but over a time it tends to highlight good comments and hide bad ones for later readers. This is best demonstrated by our collection of "historical debates". We could do better at highlighting the good ones after a while, though; perhaps in a promotion section at the start.
The most amusing thing about those in the Anti-Fa group is most of them wouldn't even be able to give the actual definition of the word 'fasscist'. Don't believe me? Look it up and then ask some of them. It's good for some amusment.
So more extremism. From extremists who are absent in this discussion. I see why Sonius' video used the phrase, "blah blah blah label label label"
What does that have to do with Foxler shoving people at Fox Trot, or Perri putting her foot in her mouth? Is this a Tu Quoque? Foxler and the Raiders get physical and loud, "BUT ANTIFA!" ? Who of course wasn't present at a Fur Meet.
Plus I think it went a little bit over your head, how I was comparing Perri and Foxler's willful ignorance of their respective conundrums.
Perri going "la la la I'm not listening" any time someone shows Foxler or a Furry Raider being an asshole. Almost saying it flat out, "I'm not clicking that." or "I'm not reading that." like, we did the work for her and put down a link just like you did Ty!
Hm. Also not going to lie. For a while here I presumed it meant Anti Fur Affinity...
528 Comments and a good portion of them look like what the reporters were saying about the Trials at Nuremberg. Okay when I first heard this I went off the deep in I too attacked Furry Raiders. Until a Facebook friend pointed out to me, what are the facts? Then later at this furmeet I found out 2 of it's members were at RMFC in 2016. So I asked them a simple question, "Did anything out of the norm took place at RMFC?". After all we have been seeing reports of near riot conditions. There answer was nothing out of the ordinary happened.
In case you didn't see this Dogpatch Press had an Interviewed Sorin, the chair at RMFC. Read this http://dogpatch.press/2017/04/25/interview-sorin-rmfc-2/ and I wonder if you feel the same afterwards.
I read it. I do.
That's not true though. There were far more than two of its members at RMFC, and despite the comment at closing ceremonies about how "peaceful" it was, there were actually multiple instances of shouting events from Furry Raiders.
So you know how in the Rolling Stone magazine some people claim to be a high school dropout? well, they committed a lie of omission; the same lie of omission that people here also committed.
It seems this person (you all know who I'm talking about, so no need to name names) has a GED and a Bachelors of Science. I'll get to the BSc in a minute. First, a little fun.
I Googled "when do you start learning about WWII?" last night. and I found out that Scholastic, at least, has books for grades 3-5, and 6-8. So even if he did dropout of high school he would have had at least a middle school education on who Hitler was and what a nazi was.
Now, the GED. I looked up what would be on the test and found out in social studies
the reason for the *? *There are different U.S. and Canadian versions of the social studies content area.
Now, I graduated high school, so I don't know what is on the test. But I did see an example question and it stated at the Gilded Age, so roughly the 1870s and I would imagine that WWII is included. Also, 25+15=40, as in 40%. 40% of 50 is 20. so slightly less than half the social studies part includes US and World history.
In Colorado you must attend school from ages 6 to 16. You can drop out at age 17. Assuming he took the GED when he was 18 in 2005, or 17 in 2004 (a min age of 17 is allowed in Colorado) that means he would have had to apply for college probably fall 2005 or spring 2006. So a 4 year degree would mean he'd finish roughly 2009-2010, maybe 2011.
Yet in this entire time he still tries to pass himself off as a mere 'high school dropout' with no knowledge of Nazism.
my question is why lie? Even a lie of omission is a lie. I mean the answer is obvious, to make himself look good and innocent (nevermind the bestality that could come up from a simple Google search). But why continue the lie. Why not just say 'i dropped out of high school, i got my GED and now I have a Bachelors of Science degree.' because right now he has a loyal follower on sites such as this claiming that he has the mentality of a 6 year old.
for that matter why lie about not knowing what a Nazi is when you can learn about WWII in 3rd grade?
Here's a question for his loyal follower--why aren't you asking yourself such questions?
Because if you'd watched the videos I linked you would have known all that and wouldn't have had to do all this pointless research. But you don't do actual research on Foxler. You look for troll research on him, because your object is not to portray him realistically, but to perpetuate a fantasy around him, just like you do around Hitler, making some bogey man out of him that people should feel they still need to be scared of. Anyway, here's the link again for you to keep ignoring. https://youtu.be/SJjHBKSt-N0
For the record, I'm a 9th grade drop out myself. I took the GED test and passed it without studying for it. The questions tend to be multiple choice. They require you to know things like what years did WW2 stretch over, maybe it might have asked who was president of this country or that during those years, but in no way does it require you to know anything about them.
Furthermore, books about WW2 made for children are homogenized for children. They don't go out of their way to instill an all pervading hatred of Hitler. To children Hitler is a comedic foil for Bugs Bunny and Donald Duck. So is Hirohito. Which reminds me, where's your unyielding hatred for him? Or don't you give a flip? What about that jerk Mussolini? And of course nobody here wants to acknowledge that Stalin ever existed, probably because they don't remember a damn thing they learned about him in school. I know I don't. But if I google who killed more people than Hitler, guess whose name pops up.
Anyway, your insistence that people learn about WW2 in school is pathetic, as anyone whose been through the American school system knows people cram all that info in one night for tests, and the info is then just as quickly jettisoned after the test. Hence America's steadily dropping collective IQ.
Only an idiot would suggest another person must remember something from school just because they do, probably because they were particularly interested in the subject. Foxler wasn't interested in history or politics. So he would have crammed the answers, not actually learned anything about the subjects. It is utterly ridiculous to say someone who had no interest in history would know Hitler as anything else but a cartoon character. And you might notice that people in The Furry Community who do art of Hitler tend to cartoon him. One has to be particularly obsessed to see Hitler as The Devil, rather than just another historical figure who is in the public domain for having sport with.
"nobody here wants to acknowledge that Stalin ever existed"
Too much C&C Counterstrike Perri.
Did Stalin round up all the Christians and put them in the oven because they stayed up past their bedtimes? Yuri wasn't even around to brainwash us yet. Sure sure, Stalin lead to Kane's Brotherhood taking a serious foothold in Europe and Africa. But Kane is actually cool, and all the newspapers could have worshipped the Furry Raiders if they had chosen to use Kane's symbol.
"Anyway, your insistence that" people dislike the furry raiders simply over their armband is old and tired.
"Only an idiot would suggest" that Foxler isn't exercising plausible deniability after the things he's said and done.
What the hell does Stalin have to do with anything?
Furthermore what the hell does GED requirements have to do with this article either?
Take this back to Facebook please.
That's an interesting question. If Stalin has nothing to do with this discussion, one has to seriously question what Hitler has to do with it. What unusual position does Hitler occupy in history that he deserves to be so enshrined as this controversy would suggest he is, when there are people and countries that can be shown to have killed more people, and inflicted more terror, including The United States and Britain, which the international community might note have higher death tolls and genocide accounts to their credit than anybody, not to mention having a historical record of financing Nazi Germany and inspiring their theories of eugenics.
Hitler's superhuman status in modern troll culture would be an interesting question to explore in a proper academic environment, which this is certainly not. I'm just saying, I see no reason why anyone in this day and age should be so personally invested in Hitler as to view him as being more terrifying than any other such historical dictator.
As you can see in the comment of the anon above, he seems to know nothing of Gulag, and actually tries to play Stalin down as insignificant. Is he displaying actual ignorance, or is he just being a truth deflecting troll? I won't venture to draw a conclusion one way or the other. I'll just state that he's doing a great job of backing Foxler's statement that it's possible to grow up in total ignorance of history via the American educational system.
As I may have stated earlier, I learned nothing of history in school. That's one of the reasons I had to drop out. As far as education was concerned, by 9th grade school had become a total waste of time. Everything I know about history was self taught via my own interest in exploring it on my own. My hobbies as a child specifically revolved around Old Time Radio, old movies and the history of that era. Had my main interest been in something non-historical, I'd never have bothered to force myself to learn things I didn't care about.
So there's nothing in Foxler's admission of his own ignorance that I find at all implausible. The very fact that Foxler has such a good paying job is demonstrative that his efforts to educate himself after he dropped out were concentrated in one specific area in which he rose to an exceptional status.
Anyone who actually had the capacity to analyze the situation would realize there is nothing at all unlikely about Foxler's explanation. But of course I know I'm not dealing with a lot of exceptional minds here who have any experience living in anyone else's shoes. They just judge everyone else by their own standards and can not acknowledge there could ever be a person who would be totally disinterested in Hitler until people started foolishly insisting he was Hitler. At which point he would naturally have enough interest to start exploring the subject, while continuing to not treat it with an ounce of seriousness.
There is, however, considerable evidence that Foxler is an imp who gets off on counter trolling, and therefore has deliberately planted most of the evidence that exists against him, because the more he is persecuted for being something any sane person would realize he could never be, the more foolish his detractors appear in the eyes of the world, and the more hilarious the joke becomes.
It is possible that, when it comes to dealing with things net related, such as trolls, Foxler could be something of a genius. As he, like 2 Gryphon, is riding his own persecution to higher visibility and greater success. And I'm probably not doing them any favors by trying to discourage you. I just want to make sure that, after they're done playing you, this stupid anti-Nazi crusade is not still around to harm any less net-savvy furs.
Don't believe he's playing you? Check out his latest video. https://youtu.be/YZQJ5pTGzpQ
Your defense is really quite tiresome.
oh, but I did. and man do I feel bad for his dogs, especially the female ones.
so you ARE a holocaust denier then? there's a reason Hitler is still talked about today, dear.
here's my question for you, Perri. Why do you think an "all pervading hatred of Hitler" bad? Are you saying that the killing of jews, the disabled, homosexuals, and anyone that he didn't view as the perfect german isn't a bad thing? are you saying that it's been 70 years, get over it?
would you say the same thing to the native american? to the african american? would you, sir, tell women that they didn't have the right to vote, to get over it, and move on?
First, here is you, "YOU CAN'T POSSIBLY HATE THOSE THINGS AND BE ON TOPIC AT THE SAME TIME!" we are talking about a neonazi group, of which you belong to (and no, we'ren ot talking about the sunreavers which you gave up) and a man who claimed not to know who Hitler was or why he was bad. The fact that you think no one hates these other men or can't hate multiple people while staying on topic is idiotic. But I guess that's a 9th grade dropout writer with 8 novels on his website for ya!
someone once told me that they did a paper in 4th grade on Nazis and Hitler. I remember an entire 9 weeks devoted to WWII, including who Hitler, why he was bad, what a Nazi was, why they were bad, etc in 7th grade. So being a 9th grade dropout doesn't matter.
I think he has some literacy problems on top of this as well, yet somehow he managed to get a BSc degree. go figure.
I'd like to quote someone right now, if you don't mind. " Hence America's steadily dropping collective IQ."
this shows why he joined a NeoNazi group anyway...
oh, i know this will be used against me but my mother is also a 55 year old 10th grade dropout with no interest in politics or history yet she STILL knows who Hitler is and why he was bad
so the only person being ridiculous here is--surprise, surprise--YOU!
so again, the Holocaust didn't happen? is that what you're saying?
Hi guys, I love everyone here. You're all my friends. You know I'm always nice, and I always have loving comments. I wanted to start over and be sane for one post. You don't have to watch this https://youtu.be/SJjHBKSt-N0 but it is the primary video I will be referencing for the following post. As well as my past friendship with Foxler.
I just really truly feel like the Furry Raiders are being picked on; primarily Foxler.
From an insider of the Furry Raiders, me, The Sane Perri, one of Foxler's friends; am going to clear up a lot of misconceptions and misunderstandings that people have made.
Their organization is a play on an idea Foxler had, "what if there were furry supremecists?" That's what their armband represents. Meaning: if Furries were superior to all human kind. That's it. Easy and simple enough to understand. You can trust me, I'm the sane version of Perri. Everything I'm going to say is true. You can trust me because I've been so nice to all of you in the past.
Foxler, his name, yes it started as a pun of Fox and Hitler. I told you, everything I'm going to say is true. He realized that's bad, and is doing his best to distance himself from that through a completely legitimate retcon. Fox and Miller. Yes, he purposefully had that little birthday Easter Egg. He is distancing from that too.
He did pay $25 to join a Neo-Nazi group that is different from Totally 100% Real Nazi Group. He did this because he wanted to learn about Nazi's and see if this thing was for him. They asked him to post some hateful comments on YouTube videos to prove he was serious. He posted these comments on animal trapping videos, and got in. Then he explained he's a furry, and they kicked him out. He can see that Neo-Nazi's are a bit extreme. He won't stop them from doing their thing, they won't stop them from doing his thing. You can see, he is growing.
He is part Thai, and part German. As we well know from Uncle Toms, race has nothing to do with supremecy - but there is still nothing more going on here than someone young, who is growing and experimenting. (refer to earlier details about "what if there were furry supremecists?")
He wrote a fictional story about "what if he ran over a Brony?"
He wrote it because he was upset that people thought he was a brony. He did it to show how much he doesn't like bronies. This is also the same idea he had in his head when he wrote that the Bronies are the Jews in his world. He believes that he is a furry first, and didn't want people to think he watched Little Girls Cartoons.
He doesn't hate bronies, or want them to die. He was just young and didn't want to be called a Brony.
After that he tried to commission a ref sheet of his fursona. He paid $150 and the artist saw the armband, decided he was a Nazi, (supposedly) did not refund his money, and so he wrote a racist comment out of anger about how much he hates black people. He was just angry, he was just young. He was only angry that he wasn't being treated fairly like a regular customer.
He is actively stating that he doesn't hate people of color, he simply has preferences. "Are you a furry?" "Do you have a fursuit?" "Maybe I'll think about sleeping with you." He is currently sleeping with a black man.
No matter what, not refunding someone's money is wrong. But I, the Honest and Sane Perri, have no proof one way or the other at the moment re: the money.
When he got a fursuit, yes, he did the Nazi salute. He regrets this, he was (only a little bit) younger, he is trying to learn from this mistake and distance himself from that.
He will not be changing the armband in protest and principal that one should not get into politics. To him the symbol is one of Furry Supremacy, and politics are a hooman philosophy. Furries are better.
He believes in Muslims being allowed to be Muslim and come to America as long as they don't break the law. Foxler is pro freedom of religion and pro immigration. He hates "political bs" and doesn't want to be part of it. He just wants to wear his armband in peace.
He and his group got banned from Fox Trot for wearing the armbands after asked not to, after they said they wouldn't. They wore it in protest of being treated unfairly, and when Foxler was forced to leave, he was understandably upset, sad, angry, and he did shove a stranger on his way out. He regrets this, and wishes it hadn't happened.
He did used to be anti gay. Furry changes people though, and he is proud to have changed.
There have been other instances of rambunctious behavior from the Furry Raiders, but he can't speak to that because he maybe wasn't there, and it wasn't him himself. The AltRight, anti immigration, anti black furs may be trying to seek solace within the Furry Raiders. However as we've seen from the suspended admin who used hatespeak, Foxler will do his best to keep the Furry Raiders clean.
He deserves our support. If there are any other questions, I will do my best to give full and honest answers like above.
Love, The Sane Version of Perri.
TL;DR
What's sad is this would actually have been a good argument from Perri if it were really her.
And even *she* TL'DR'd it because she can't stomach her own rhetoric. Cute.
It's too bad someone TL;DR'd this, because they might have realized something.
I'm guessing this comment is from Mr. Miller and that he is placing himself as Perri Rhodes, due to the fact that Perri Rhodes has been, in essence, doing the opposite and speaking "as" the Furry Raider leader this whole time.
I suspect this due to the personal antidotes laced within that and the personal reflection within.
If that is so, well played sir. Because if that is the case then it seems like if you removed your name and your position from your organization, your greatest defender showed they'd just wave their hand and dismiss your thoughts and feelings.
So I will say this in case it is the case. If you're keeping a banner to because you hate making political statements, then like it or not that is a political statement. Choosing to do nothing is a political action, it's called laissez-faire. To me, it's sometimes a good position, other times not. In this case though, I think doing nothing is more harmful in the long run for the Raiders then taking more active steps.
But that's just my opinion. Thanks for your thoughts, "Sane Perri".
That was a pretty sick impersonation, even for Yoko Beaumont.
https://encyclopediadramatica.rs/Yoko_Beaumont
What is tiresome is that you unwittingly ask such interesting questions while attempting to be an obnoxious troll.
I've seen the so called evidence about Foxler's dogs. Nothing but another troll screen cap with the context conveniently omitted. It says nothing except his dog likes to sleep on the foot of his bed.
Like I said on Facebook, I'm not going to even dignify any accusations of Holocaust denial with a response. But I will say, it's seriously disrespectful of you to turn the Holocaust into troll fodder.
Why do I think an all pervading hatred of Hitler is a bad thing? Because it's a sign of insanity, total detachment from reality, an excuse to throw all reason to the wind, etc. etc. etc. It's also an excuse to forget that, as far as the rest of the world is concerned, America is the new unholy terror on the international scene. I'm far more concerned with atrocities going on at the moment than I am with ancient history.
Yes, I dare say, when it comes to writing skills, Foxler might be considered a functional illiterate, as I was when I dropped out. He has obviously not concentrated his priorities on becoming a writer as I have. Instead, he has focused his learning on computers, and has risen to a high status in that field. That does not indicate he should be well educated on any other subject. Indeed, that kind of achievement in one area actually indicates probability of ignorance in unrelated areas.
Like I said, you judge everything by your own experience and your own environment. So you can find another person my age who dropped out and knows about Hitler. That proves absolutely nothing about anyone else, especially considering Foxler is a lot younger than your mother and myself. Like I said, you can't imagine what it's like to be in anyone else's shoes, which makes any judgments you make on others prejudice.
Holocaust is also in the public domain, which is why you feel free to abuse it in such a disrespectful manner. You should be ashamed of yourself, using the deaths of your own people to justify persecuting other people through Nazi-like tactics.
I don't think there's much anything to the dogs thing either.
I like the reply the Sane you wrote to Kylie above though, shut her up but good.
No, fear shut me up.
But I've since contacted a lawyer. That's all I can say for now.
I'm sorry, but Deo's decision to make threats online started this. The Piece of shit wasn't even going to go, but acted like they were so they could stir up shit and play the victim. DEO KILLED THE CON. The idiot started this whole mess, and I think we, as a collective, should excommunicate the bastard in the same manner that the Klingons would. Discommendation. No contact. Ignore the individual, push the scummy fuckin' prude out of OUR fandom. She/he/IT showed NO remorse for getting the con canceled and is very likely trying to play the victim still. This would have been my FIRST EVER FURRY CONVENTION because I ~just~ moved to Denver and was planning to go, even though I have no fursuit yet..I wanted to get a feel for what a Furry Convention was like, and had heard that the one in Denver was one of the better ones to experience..now I won't get that chance, and nobody else will, either, because of Deo's ignorant ass-hattery and beligerence. "I wanna punch nazi's!"...Well, so do other people, but the rest of us understand this thing called "Individual rights and freedoms" that are written of in the fuckin' Consitution. But I guess Pseudo-ANTIFA scum don't know how to fucking read.
I say we add Deo to a ban list. Ban the cunt from ALL furcons, indefinitely. It's the LEAST Deo deserves for STARTING the cascade of failures that led to the very-likely-permanent shut-down of this convention that THOUSANDS have attended over the last decade.
So since she saw fit to lie and get the entire community punished for her deceit, it's time we turn the tables and punish her. No physical violence would be called for. All it would take would be for all Deo's "Friends" and "Followers" to stop paying attention to them, stop acknowledging their existence.
I imagine Deo has some friends already who are very cross with, and are distancing themselves, from Deo over this, and I HOPE Deo is feeling the burn of what they've done to our community.
And please, don't reply to me making excuses for the cunt...There ~IS~ ~NO~ ~EXCUSE~ for what Deo did.
nope. since no one can actively, and conclusively conclude who 'these nazis' are, this s a false statement.
nope, the furry raiders did.
1. you don't speak for me, so no.
2. you can't even get people to agree on what is or isn't a nazi. so good luck.
so sh doesn't have the constitutional right to be an "ignorant belligerent asshat" or to say she wants to punch nazis Also, your previous comment about banning her causes me to think you lied about loving or liking the Constitution.
What did she lie about?
Not gonna happen either.
Go outside, kiddo.
Awwwe, look, someone else making excuses for the scumbag. Nice brown nose ya got there.
Here's the deal.
You're free to SAY whatever the fuck you want, but you're NOT free to determine how people react to what you say. If you say some shit that's divisive and hateful, expect backlash for it. If you say some shit that causes other shit to happen, no matter how "Far down the rabbit hole the con already went", Deo is the catalyst that caused it to go supernova. All involved share some blame in this, as 2 has stated, but Deo will be the one shouldering the brunt of the blame because it was DEO WHO STARTED THE NAZI SHIT ON TWITTER, which cascaded into complete fucking meltdown, and the people putting the con together ultimately ended up feeling that it wouldn't be safe to have it this year, if ever again, BECAUSE of the threats of violence against con-goers.
And don't get it twisted, either. Deo was full-well aware of what they said and did. it takes FORETHOUGHT to type shit on a keyboard, and every ounce of her forethought said "I wanna punch Nazi's. *Hit enter!*"
The dumb cunt wouldn't even be able to point a "nazi" out in the crowd, anyway, unless they were wearing a fucking swastika, and I know a lot of furries DRAW Nazi's (Because their uniforms are fuckin' Sweeeeet~), but I don't know any who ARE Nazi's, because you can't just BE a fuckin' nazi just because you want to.
True Nazi's would kill furries because they think there's something wrong with our brains. If you didn't have high mental accumen, blonde hair, blue eyes, etc., you weren't "Aryan", and therefore wouldn't even be ALLOWED to be a full-fledged Nazi. All you'd be to them is an expendable unit. Canon fodder, the first to die by the blades of war.
"Neo-Nazi's" are just morons who hold to the ideal of a "Master Race", and they're quickly dwindling in terms of ranks and power structure, because nobody wants them in their neighborhoods/society.
It doesn't take violence to end bigotry of that kind. It takes knowledge. Knowing your rights, knowing the constitution, and knowing the rights of other individuals are some of the first fuckin' things we learn about in school, but apparently ANTIFA scum don't, as I said before, know how to fuckin' read.
And I hate Nazi's. I don't even like Neo-Nazi's (I don't know any, personally, either, so there's that), and the last motherfucker to bring up race as a means to determine someone's worth got left sitting alone at the fuckin' bar with a bunch of people staring at her like she's a fuckin' neanderthal. I walked home that night...not that it was very far..a block at most, but whatever.
I didn't fuckin' punch anybody to let them know I disagree with them, I simply excommunicated the fucker from my life. It was that simple. I didn't have to fuckin' punch anyone, or threaten to, either. I just got up, told them they were a racist neo-nazi scumbag with the moral compass and character depth of an 80's Disney villain, got up, and left. That's all it took. Never heard from the stupid twat again.
So yes, non-violence WORKS, and in some instances, can be much more effective than any show of force.
actually, you ARE when they threaten to bring a gun to an area that it is illegal to carry it in. She made a twitter comment and was threatened for it. She contacted the con security, they did nothing. Police and hotel stepped in (I'll give a hint, kiddo, someone sent that gun threatening tweet to the hotel.) and decided that the GUN THREAT was credible.
this comment contradicts your previous statement.
actually, the furry raiders did by existing, and 2 helped by defending them. so the only people that will see her to blame are you, the furry raiders and 2. hmm...not the best company to keep, snowflake.
neither do you, apparently, since you wouldn't be able to find a single excuse in my previous comment.
Neither did Deo.
Riiight..because saying you want to punch nazi's at a con doesn't constitute a threat, nor could it be taken as one, right? Get the fuck out of here with that ignorant-ass, highly flawed, single-minded thought process.
YOU might not think of something as a threat, but YOU don't control what other people think and feel, and how they respond to something. As I said, Deo isn't entirely responsible, but for Deo's part? Deo IS responsible. Deo made the first "threat", and someone retorted with THEIR threat to defend themselves if they had to. So who threatened who? They both threatened each other, But, again, had Deo kept their ignorant mouth shut and not tried to START DRAMA (as is wont for a lot of Furries today, apparently, and let's face it..the furry fandom can be a fairly Dramatic set piece to work around, always in danger of "Hurtin' someone's peelin's" over some imagined insult or another and in-fighting over ignorant shit).
The FACT (Not conjecture) remains that Deo said something that illicited a response from another person who felt threatened by Deo's statement, enough that they threatened to physically defend themselves with violence if need be, and DEO then blew it way out of proportion and completely OMITTED their involvement in the argument to garner unwarranted, undeserved favor/attention. And if you're going to continue to defend that charlatan, then we have nothing more to say, and I'd rather you kept whatever else you have to say to yourself, because I really don't care to hear another re-hash on why you "think" Deo is innocent, because the rest of us see clear through the bullshit. Why don't you? And don't tell me it's because you know how to use your brain..because, obviously, you do not know how to use critical thinking skills.
Critical thinking: the con was already suffering since pre RMFC 2016 when a whole bunch of people didn't go to avoid the Furry Raiders. Even more weren't returning for 2017 after experiencing them in person.
So I didn't think it was going to still exist for much longer either way. It's had a lot of shit moments sans the Furry Raiders too. Denfur was coming. With good reason. It will be run better, by smarter people. Better people.
I was unaware of any decline, being new in Colorado...like..brand new..only been here..*Checks calendar*..2 months?
I won't agree with some of the language you used, but yes, I'd agree Deo deserves some consequences for starting the snowball rolling down the hill. I don't for one moment believe she was the sole or even the primary cause for the death of RMFC, but she did help provide the final nail. RMFC obviously had issues prior to this. If they'd maintained a good relationship with their hotel, this wouldn't likely have been enough to kill the con. That said, I'd also be fine banning Foxler and his group or at least disallowing the Nazi regalia they like. Deo may have lit the match, but the Furry Raiders provided the fuel. I wouldn't want either at a convention I had any say in. And no, there is no 'freedom of speech' issue here. That only applies to the government and even there it's not 100%. Cons are private events and are under no onus to provide the soapbox for anyone to stand on.
Most of the staple conventions have put in the rules against people buying up/selling giving out multiple rooms at this point like what kind of started the whole thing where people started to investigate the Raider's background.
Presumably they have enough gold to run their own furry convention. RMFC was just a test-run.
I like how 2TRG is one of the only people standing up for *both* Deo + Foxler.
He even specifically said he respects Deo. I agree with Equivamp, no one seems to see nuance.
If that is the thing that actually killed the con then it speaks volumes on how badly run it was. I can see it possibly being a straw that broke it's back but I would say they would have been on the verge of flying apart if that was the case.
Given the cease and desist letter they sent out shows how clueless they were on topics such as how the world actually works.
Also...Deo is trying to say they AREN'T responsible, and that this shit started years ago...I call bullshit. Deo is making excuses to not take responsibility for their words. They said some shit, stirred up the pot, as it were, and then decided to IGNORE THE THREAT ~THEY~ MADE, and instead called in a fake gun threat over someone threatening to DEFEND THEMSELVES AGAINST DEO'S AGGRESSION.
So, yes, Deo is playing the fucking victim here, and the ONLY victims are all the people who are adversely affected by this, namely the con-goers and the folks who were going to be running the con. So several THOUSAND people are going to be really pissed off at Deo, and I wouldn't doubt if the dumbshit wound up on a "DO NOT ADMIT" list in the future for conventions, being someone who wilfully stirs up shit for kicks.
Deo is NOT a victim. Deo is the PERPETRATOR. THE INSTIGATOR OF THE ENTIRE FIASCO...don't delude yourself into thinking otherwise, and don't let anyone else delude you, either. mark my words, that morons actions were quite deliberate, and they feel NO remorse for ruining this for everyone.
correcting myself...Deo didn't start the ~whole~ shebang..what Deo DID do, however, was make threats, then blow responses out of proportion, omitted their own involvement in making threats against people, and brought this "threat" to the attention of the convention owners. Deo played the victim and omitted their own involvement because they knew it wouldn't look good if it was dicovered that they made the initial threat. THAT is what Deo is trying to cover their ass for right now. They're ignoring the fact they started this particular branch of the butterfly effect, and showing no remorse at all for their involvement in what happened.
Deo is playing the victim, and if you can't see that, after the MOUNTAIN of evidence to support these claims I'm sure most, if not all, of us have seen, then you're a gullible idiot, or you have your head so far up Deo's ass you can see fuckin' daylight.
Yeah! Fuck nuance! This is all Deo's fault in 2017! Who cares if Sorin himself has admitted that the Raider's dickswinging powerplay at RMFC 2016 was the origin of it! And that there was a flurry of different contributing factors! Motherfuck nuance, I say! I just want a scapegoat!
Down with the Devil!
Hi, guys! I'm back, how's everyone these days!
I even submitted an article about the new Wes Anderson movie coming next year, and I'm glad to see (via my super secret spy abilities, i.e. the CMF tab) that CassidytheCivet did get to review Rock Dog and apparently thought it was worse than Zootopia! So that's good!
Anyway, I'm just looking forward to reviewing Guardians of the Galaxy Vol. 2 in a few days, and that's about it; earthfurst or dronon or whoever can continue on with the Newsbytes, or whatever, I don't care! Also, I'm not the editor anymore, and that's just fine, Sonious is (and GreenReaper is more of, like, a publisher, really, nowadays), and I have every confidence in his abilities! In fact, we're going to do a panel together at Anthrocon this year (is it okay for me to announce that?)! Isn't that fun! Yes, crossie is attending a convention! I know, right!
Oh, and you might have noticed the new screenname, but I assure you, I'm the same old crossie you know and love! Or don't! Haha, jk, whatevs! See, I thought ending the same way I started, with a Pokemon game announcement, was just too perfect to pass up, so I retired the account! Also, I may have typed random gibberish into the "new password" part and then had to change my email for unrelated reasons! Oops! But now I can make a Doctor Who reference, so it's cool!
Well, anywho, I might check up on what's going on here today; I saw the first article was an obituary, and decided it wasn't an appropriate place to make this announcement, but now I guess I better see what this article is all about, ha ha! This'll only take a moment ...
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JESUS CHRIST, WHAT THE FUCK IS WRONG WITH YOU PEOPLE.
Dronon is also an editor as well. Welcome back fox.
You ruined the surprise, I was going to publish the Rock Dog one and then follow it up with yours so that Cassidy though it would be like, her article that brought you back and all!
The magic is ruined.
But yes, look forward to AC this year.
Sorry, dronon!
Though, that settles the Newsbytes thing (it is so much easier for an editor to do).
Also, I forgot to unclick the "notify me when new comments are posted" tab.
This is going to be a nightmare.
I suspect it'll die down in a few weeks. You missed the worst of it.
I might actually stick around/get an account or read past+future articles. I like a lot of what I read in the comments section from editors.
(laughs) Hey, no problem. I'm still learning the ropes of editorship, so any suggestions or warnings of potential pitfalls are welcome! Timeliness is still a bit of an issue (May is going to be a super-busy month for me) - at the moment we've got about a half-dozen pending articles, some quite old, plus a bunch that just aren't post-worthy (although I'm sure their authors feel differently - Fred, yours is fine). We've kept the Newsbytes going, but not the comics roundup.
I was actually going to write a review of Rock Dog when Cassidy submitted hers, so I'm going to wait until that's greenlit, and then reply with my comments.
Crazy long thread, huh? I'm enough of a greymuzzle that I'm just zoning out of it. IMO, the problems partially stem from Geek Social Fallacy #1 - Inclusivity is a good notion at heart, but when pushed to its limits, if there's not enough con staff pushback as tensions escalate from year to year, you get stuff like what happened to Rainfurrest and RMFC. Honestly, the thing I've found the most interesting from all this, is that Flayrah's comment threads can get split across multiple pages. Didn't know it could do that!
Anyway, I'm looking forward to your film insights! (Congrats on getting some good responses on Cartoon Brew, BTW.) Assuming they come out, I'm curious to see The Big Bad Fox, Kensuke's Kingdom, Beast of Burden, Ferdinand, Animal Crackers, Coco, Wolfwalkers, and Isle of Dogs. I think Sahara will be out on DVD in two months - I don't have high hopes for that one, but I'm going to watch it nonetheless. :)
Also, good luck with the Ursas!
I hope The Big Bad Fox gets picked up by GKIDS, so it has a shot at the Oscars (Ernest & Celestine was from the same studio, I believe) ... and, honestly, me seeing it. I just realized there's a very good chance I will not get to see Isle of Dogs in theaters, never mind a French film, so don't expect a review.
You realise that article authors can't turn off comment notification at all. :(
That's what you get for publishing a popular topic, sucker!
But seriously, there are some technical issues with the site that can hopefully be addressed when things are back up to speed.
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