Tails soon to be a reality
Posted by Fahnix on Sun 24 Aug 2003 - 10:44 — Edited by mwalimu as of Tue 10 Oct 2017 - 11:16
Dr Joe Rosen, a respected American surgeon says that, within five years, he will be able to graft wings and tails on to human beings. The article can be read here.
Comments
It might be interesting to run a survey to see who among the furry fandom would actually be willing to get this kind of plastic surgery if it became available. Just a thought.
Ears, a tail or wings anyone?
yes i would really love a black fluffy wolf tail
Wait who took my user name for YouTube why are you pretending to me I'm the real Crazyjay021 I am him so why on earth are you going around as me!?!?!?
I want some cute fox ears and tail. Though my next question is: Will they be use able? Like will we be in control of our new parts, will we be able to flick our tail, twitch our ears, that sort of stuff?
To be honest I would get the ears and tail i,ve been wanting to have them for so long is it really possible can you control them with your mind or mood
Sorry if I,m asking to many questions
To answer your question, we don't know if they are usable or controlled via mind or mood, for much the same reason that we don't know if goobletygobbers are usable or can be controlled via mind or mood:
THEY AREN'T FUCKING REAL.
JESUS GOD I HATE THIS ARTICLE SO FUCKING MUCH.
Im in favor of closing this article up from further comments. This is dated from 2003, and here it is 2017, were still not closer to having anything remotely like real functioning tails, wings, etc. I dont think it's really possible (not for the time being anyway), otherwise we would have found at least some progress by now. Maybe one day cybernetic technologically could help make that more of a reality, but I dont see that happening for a long time. Get over it and settle on a fursuit tail.
I concur. I'm disabling any further comments to this article.
I can see myself eventually going to the doctor, and saying, "Yes, I'd like a tail, but no I don't want it right now. I'd like...mmm...a year to think it over, before I make such a bold decision."
Plus I'd want to wait until the technology was improved, so I could have something nice 'n' fluffy. I wouldn't want a bald tail.
And maybe I'd wait (once the tech is fully available) more than a year. This isn't the sort of thing I'd want to go out and do on a whim. In the article, it talks of people who get other kinds of body modification, and later regret it. Heck, even a tattoo could be a rash decision. (Not that I'd want one of those.) But for now, my prosthetics (belt-on tails) suffice. }=)
Not to mention the *money* I'd need to have. =^.^= Gotta graduate...and go to graduate school...by then hopefully the economy will have pulled out of the drain.
Smile! The world could use another happy person.
My answer is: Yes, Yes, No- but not _this_ way (cosmetic surgery
just wont cut it)!
1. It wouldnt be just one operation. Consider what is involved
with known modifications like lengthening a short person's legs
an inch or so. A major change, like growing a proper length
tail, would take many operations and years.
2. Tremendous expense. I wouldn't be surprised at a million
dollars- a sum somewhat beyond the usual pocket change range!
3. No promise that the new parts would `work'- just a hope the
brain will adapt, nerves will develop, and muscles will perform
properly.
4. Some consider it a necessary beginning, but in my opinion,
bits and pieces don't make a complete new creature. Cosmetic
surgery only produces a `jackalope'. (Again: Only my opinion.)
But keeping the dream alive is important, so that young furs
will grow up and develop genetic manipulation techniques to
enable one's body to rebuild _itself_ completely and properly
(probably for a lot less money and pain)!
I think you've got the most realistic view on this whole thing... it'd be definitely cool, but I think the thing that would stop most of us is the price tag... I'd be willing to be a test subject... if it wasn't so damnably expensive!
Oh well... give it a couple decades... I hope...
Tlaren }:=8}
Interesting thing is most test subjects being subjected to something like that get the whole thing for free but problm with that is that means if it comes out bad tough luck hope you get into the next cycle so they can fix the mistake.
Price would be a huge issue and yes, there would be no guarantee that the new parts would work. But I hope it doesn't take terribly long to get this stuff taken care of and fool proof Cause I want to be able to get this stuff before I get too old and grow out of this because lets face it, when I grow up I'm probably going to have a different view on these things and might not be interested when this surgery is perfected and open to the public.
Well, I'm glad that you recognize the difference between a wish and the reality. Yes, it would be nice to have a bushy tail that you could wag. Will science and neurology ever get to the point of installing the organs and the muscles to make them work? Today, fourteen years after this post, it seems doubtful. Fifty or a hundred years from now? Who knows?
Fred Patten
By that time I'd hope we'd have the whole rabbit! Or perhaps we can experience the world through other Earth animals, as in Foundation's Fear… if any survive our depredations. Alas, we are as likely to turn into machines – technology often does not develop as fast or far as we hope, let alone in the same direction.
People, what's gotten into you? Where do you think these tails would come from? They're not grown out of plastic.
Do you want to kill, say, a fox so that you can have your 'own' fox tail?
Well hell, knowing many furries no-one gives a crap anyway.
smells like bullshit... where's my napalm, I'm going troll bombing... *roots around in his stash*
Tlaren }:=8}
I agree, good sir. This surgery would be nice for us furries, but think of where the parts come from , everyone! Please! I'd rather remain human than kill a fox for a tail or ears.
Oh, and I DO care about these animals, more than I care about humans. Don't you DARE associate me with anyone who doesn't.
My interests lie in genetic recombination, anyways. Grafting doesn't insure a whole lot. I've been studying basic procedures for it, so I'm hoping to be able to advance on it.
~Buster
Care to elucidate, Mr/Mrs Tlaren?
Let me make it clearer for any furries who can't see through their fantasy fog.
The process described pertains to grafting tails. GRAFTING. Not growing.
So, you need to get a tail from somewhere. Very likely, recently-removed and on-ice.
Now, animals aren't exactly queuing up to donate their tails, like they generally aren't queuing up to 'donate' their fur. These fantasy tail-donors will spend their life in a cage barely large enough to stand up in, then one day they'll be anally electrocuted and -- enjoy! -- there's your tail on ice.
Think about it next time you cry 'oh yiffy squiffy I gonna git me ah TAIL!'.
Ok, the statement was made that we furs would willingly kill animals for our tails, and I mean ALL furs... that's simply not true. Me, personally, I'd be fine with synthetic fur to be implanted. And I know other furs that wouldn't mind synth fur either.
I abhor anyone that kills animals for fashion alone... Synthetic, fake fur all the way for me!
There, I've elucidated...
And as a matter of fact, I'm male.
Tlaren }:=8}
Once upon a time, L. Ron Hubbard wrote a huge collection called Mission: Earth. In the first of the series, he introduced a "Doctor Crobe" whose specialty was grafting animal parts onto human bodies. Hubbard thought at the time that this Dr. Crobe was a satirical look at the medical profession. Life imitates art once again?To be sure, Fur-dom is not unique in that some of its fans are just a bit nutz, but for the life of me, I can't figure out who's crazier here: those furs who would seriously consider such surgeries, or that "doctor" who's proposing performing them.It's bad enough to be farming animals just so some rich b**** can have a status symbol. Now it seems that we'll be farming animals just so some yutz can sport a real, live tail at a con? I'll stick with the temporary, fake-fur, strap-on kind, thank you so very much.
We can grow functioning organs now. We've grown a human ear on the back of a mouse. Soon enough, we'll take a lab grown tail and just graft it on. Not chop it off like you're thinking. Chopping it off is illegal, as we all know, so of course they wouldn't do that. But yeah, either way, anyone considering this should still wait a good 5-10 years. Should be possible and safe at 10 years, but someone will most likely have to be a willing human guinea pig to help further testing. Someone who's so desperate to get a tail grafted on that they'd risk their life for free or for a minor pay or something like that.
I am dumbfounded by the people who don't understand the difference between grafting a tail onto humans (assuming that this ever becomes possible), and installing the muscles to move it. Such a tail would just hang limply; not be waggable or otherwise moveable.
Fred Patten
i would offer myself to get a dragon one grafted on me even wings
Yes, today. Fifty or a hundred years from now, they may be able to grow tails in vats so they won't have to amputate them from foxes; also the muscles to move them. It's impossible today, and will be for many years, but fifty or a hundred years in the future, who knows?
Fred Patten
one thing is for sure, we'll be long dead before they start testing, so we might as well just carry on living now we can. it would be a waste of time to wait on someting there's a 10% change it would happen in our lifetime.
i'm not trying to piss people off, i'm just trying to tell the most likely thing to happen.
i'll take all of the blame for people who has gone mad by now
Maybe not even 50 years, as we all know, you can buy a brand new top notch laptop, and it'll be pretty outdated in a mere 2 years, maybe even sooner if we advance at an even faster rate, so who's to say it won't happen in the next 10-20 years even? If we can graft things now, grow organs in labs now, and replicate heart muscles now (which was one of those things we didnt think was possible for another 10 years but was accomplished in the next 2 instead), then we will figure out how to make tails and from there, attempt muscle therapy of sorts to get the muscles to work accordingly! If we can get tails to work, we can take lab grown arms and legs and graft them on amputees, so even if the tails and ears seem dumb, it's still rather useful in the long run!
I think that uh, we would almost definitely start any such thing with arms, legs, or just general things that already exist in the human neurological body map, lol.
There was that Ripley's Believe It or Not tiger guy a couple years back believing technology would be able to transform him into a tiger, like, any day now. Then he died with what was the equivalent of a facial tattoo and some weird piercings. He was the cutting edge of human/animal transformation, and his most successful technique was letting his fingernails grow really long.
Well, seeing as how this is a 14 year old article and we're no closer now than we were then, my prediction is that in 10 to 20 years we'll still be getting random anonymous commenters telling us how excited they are by this imminent achievement.
He had pretty extensive dental/nasal/facial reconstructive surgeries iirc.
And yet, didn't look anything like a tiger. Heck, even if they did invent the technology, they probably would have had to undo 90% it before they could start.
And, I mean, the average scientific reaction to the idea of growing a tail is probably "polite, puzzled apathy", at best. Hell, I'm actually a furry, and my attitude toward the idea is naked contempt.
Sure, but that's your reaction to a lot of things. ;-)
Given our progress in stimulating, say, the visual system for those with disabilities, it might be more practical to approach it from the perspective of putting your mind in control of and in reception of the sensory experience of an existing animal body.
However for some that brings up different ethical issues. Also, we seem to be doing a good job at killing off many of the species we'd most like to 'ride' with.
Naked Contempt will be the title of my memoirs.
Pfft. Think of the market opportunity! Only a few humans need new arms or legs. All of them need a tail!
maybe if we can manipulate the growth of a child inside the mom, we can take monsters and some other stuff wirhout killing the child, and than inject it into ourselves
just an idea
"Maybe not even 50 years, as we all know, you can buy a brand new top notch laptop, and it'll be pretty outdated in a mere 2 years, maybe even sooner if we advance at an even faster rate, so who's to say it won't happen in the next 10-20 years even? "
That was true like 15-20 years ago. It's just not true now.
"If all mankind minus one, were of one opinion, and only one person were of the contrary opinion, mankind would be no more justified in silencing that one person, than he, if he had the power, would be justified in silencing mankind."
~John Stuart Mill~
That, and bio-technology is not the same thing as computer technology.
They can make a tail by cloning existing bone muscle and skin cells and make a tail that way far more expensive but possible
Depends on what you choose I didnt read all of the articles but if lizard tails are possible they would just grow back I am pretty stupid so >.<
with tec we have we could grow cat,fox,dog,wolf ears or tails so no animal whould have to die
GODDAMMIT!
I can hardly believe the direction taken in the last few posted comments.
Please re-read the article and you will find that although the word "graft" is used by the writer, no such thing is implied by the procedures described.
Animal parts are _not_ involved.
... My my my such anger we must all calm down. Now my personal belief is that killing animals for fasion is wrong and that killing animals for food is ok in some cases (Only when nessasary humans are omnivores after all). I think that genetic recombination would be optimal and that synth fur would do for a furry tail (Provided that the body dose not reject it in which case I would have to say nuts to the whole procedure). Useing an actual tail from another animail would be abhorantly dangerous very few animals have a compatible body structure to have their body parts "graftable" most grafts would begin to reject within hours, plus that would fall under the using animals for fasion catagory.
Thats my rant for the day.
It's now eleven years after Dr. Rosen's within-five-years prediction, and I haven't heard of any people with grafted-on animal tails yet, much less wings. (And to be aerodynamically possible for humans, they would have to be HUGE wings. Larger than you could get from any existing birds. Artificially grown in a lab, maybe? And where would humans put the musculature to flap them? "Within five years"; yeah, sure!)
Fred Patten
Okay, I see that Rosen admitted that the wings would be for cosmetic purposes only, like angels, and that humans with them wouldn't actually be able to fly. Even so, any humans with wings would need some really enhanced musculature to even flap them. Would such wings be skin-&-leathery, like bat wings, or would the humans be expected to grow feathers?
Fred Patten
I think the wing would actually come out with body, like the hair on our heads, which would be neat to have fluffy wings.
Well, it's a matter of priorities. We got a burger, after all. We just need to convince someone super-rich that they need to become an anthropomorphic animal. Perhaps we should start a religion . . .
So should we make it hip and top of the line new trend? or just be confusing and wordy?
Well, they had a Book of Peace, but that seems a little outdated. Perhaps a wiki? "The religion that anyone can edit"?
now that would be funny XD
"Religion anyone can edit" already exists.
Where do you think denominations come from?
XD right, forgot about those.
Yes please I would love to have a long dragon size tail and wings as long as there both black
I think a tail implant would be great I want one now. my girlfriend would love it a wolf I need one. even tho I am 13 I really want one. if I get one I will be so happy. if anybody knows were to get one u can tell me through email. my email account [email protected] I need one it will make me so happy plzzzzzzzzzzzz
I think that one of the greatest furry stories ever written is Robert Heinlein's 1947 "Jerry Was a Man" (which I haven't included in any of my anthologies only because the Heinlein estate won't give me reprint permission). In it, a "plasto-biology" expert points out that extraneous body parts added because they "look neat" won't really work. A pegasus that's really a horse with an eagle's wings can't really fly; it's not aerodynamic, it ignores the square-cube law, etc. Similarly, grafting a wolf's tail to your spine without the muscles to move it will give you a tail that just hangs limply.
Fred Patten
I've searched a few Websites about human whit tails and tail surgerys, and i do believe the brain wil automatic know when a new body part is added and connect nurves, muscle etc. Because what i want is being an avatar from the movie (You know, whit the Blue People) sorry for my bad enlish.
I see this article was first posted in 2003... so where are the wings and tails that were supposed to appear in five years?
As for the body automatically adding and connecting nerves? I don't buy it, and I can state from personal experience after having surgery and still not having the nerves working properly in that area - I would not have faith of the body automatically knowing what to do with a tail or wings that suddenly been added.
Amen to Freaky Lynx.
Fred Patten
There is a company that can give you a tail, fur, muzzle, claws, better lungs, digigrade limbs, can modify your stomach to have a all meat or fish diet, allows you to move your tail, can improve you night vision, enhance you smelling and tasting, etc...
whats the company's name so i can look them up plz
plz email me [email protected]
He's lying... he's not posting again on any information on where and how you could get these so-called implements. In anycase, even if these were technically possible at this point, it would likely cost into the thousands of dollars, euros, etc which would be out of reach for all but the most well off of furries.
What's the name of this company
That wil be a true dream, but i hope that i don't need to go across the world or/and trow all my money at it
no clue but i gota find out what and who these people are first then ill deside
I can't find someone on the web, but it could matter thati'm in the nertherlands
I wouldn't mind living in the wild with night vision enhanced hearing (fox ears) and a tail if I could move them...
I would be poor at that point though...
True
I did find something on the web that woud May be bring more questions with it.
here's the url: http://www.madsci.org/posts/archives/2003-03/1046819623.An.r.html
it has been a while since i posted the last thing, but how about growing tails? the url i shared had nothing to say about growing tails. so may be that whould be an option te do. the only thing is, we have to thing how to do that.
They're planning on doing a head transplant in the near future, let's see if that works... then we'll have a better idea what level we're at with surgery these days and how possible this could all be as just a hypothetical.
I maintain that it's simply not possible, at least for the time being. Besides the fact that your body would likely reject a foreign limb being added (even with organ transplants you're required to take numerous immunity suppressing drugs so your body doesn't destroy say a new kidney or heart), that nerves wouldn't automatically connect properly... but there's also no wiring in your brain that would allow for a limb humans have never had. So you'd never be able to control it or even have the processing to feel it attached to your body.
Now maybe in the future they could have some sort of cybernetics to fill those deficits or genetically modify humans in the womb to allow for tails... but probably for the rest of us we'll have to stick to fursuit tails.
oke, that's great.
but if it works, we'll don't know how much it will cost to do.
In the first stages of being developed as a baby, you'll have a tail and you'll be able to control it without knowing it.
And some People Will still have thier tail when they get born, due to a failure in the development.
and if they Will be able to move thier tail, then we'll also be able to, but we don't know how.
Sorry for bad gramma
I would love to have a fox tail but would it be worth it? I'm only 16
This story was written when you were two years old, so by the time it's a reality you'll probably be old enough. :-)
Define old enough? I don't get it
I would also like to have wolf ears but wat would the cost be like expensive I bet
My gf is a furry so I bet she'll want to have a wolf tail since she loves wolves and all well tbh I'm a furry to.
Also I was born in 2000 so I'm turning 17 this year but I would looooooooove to have a fox tail that I can move and feel its softness. also Is this real life were talking bout?
Yes, this is meant to be in real life. The reason you might have to be old enough is that it'd involve body modification. Given it was meant to be possible by 2008, and it's now close to 2018, it'd be reasonable to assume it's not happening.
That hasn't stopped people making podcasts in 2013 about his ideas. But the reality is that most research work in this area, including his, is focused on reconstructive surgery, and "wings and tails" are something of a pipe-dream.
(This is a news article, not a chat room, and you might want to slow down and read everything, then put your responses into one reply, by clicking the "Reply" link on one of the comments here, rather than making a new comment below others. :-)
Thanks a bunch also I don't think it will turn real tbh sad ik but o well also if this does turn real id be surprised. wouldn't u?
Also if it did turn true and we can do plastic surgery to have tails I would be soooo happy like really happy but who knows with the technology today right it could turn possible.
it would be to nice to be real. but i'll keep on dreaming, maybe one day it will be real.
let's just hope for the best (or the worst so you won't be dissapointed if it can't be real)
also how do u become a furry?
Yes I created an account
I'm part fox/wolf so hiya there furry peeps whats up?
hi
Anyone on??
Again, this isn't a chat room. It's a comment section of a fourteen-year-old news article. :-)
If you want to chat, I suggest finding a channel suited to your interests on Anthrochat or FurNet, or using SoFurry Chat. If you're interested in furry roleplay, F-list, Tapestries MUCK, FurryMUCK or SpinDizzy might be worth looking into.
(Click the above names for information on WikiFur, or the relevant websites.)
well thanks but I know that also green you don't have to remind me would love it if this became an actual reality people with tails imagine
You know what ill just wait a couple of years before I decide on getting a tail.
wanna know something I'm actually a furry wanna know why I think that? its because I act like an animal.
Folfy, I notice that you're using Yamavu's foxgirl portrait that's on the cover of my "Furry Fandom Conventions, 1989-2015" from McFarland, and on Wikipedia's general article on furry fandom. Have you gotten Yamavu's permission? Has anyone gotten Yamavu's permission? WikiFur says that he's a furry fan in Vienna, Austria, but I don't know how current that is. If you've been corresponding with him recently, you may know more about him than I do.
Fred Patten
The image in question was uploaded to Wikipedia under the Creative Commons Atribution-ShareAlike 4.0 International license (CC BY-SA 4.0). As the license description states, it means the work may be used - even commercially - without further permission, as long as notice is given of the license, and attribution given to the author, along with the work.
Because it has the "ShareAlike" component, any copy of his image, including a derivative work, must also be offered for use under this license if you distribute it, such as by publishing - but that does not mean your entire book must be licensed under CC BY-SA; just that if you'd coloured the image green, you'd have to let others use the green version.
Yamavu is still active on Wikimedia Commons (the free image hosting service used by Wikipedia) and it's likely that you could contact him via his talk page, by clicking +comment at the top (you might want to login first, or you could give an address to contact you at).
Yamavu also has a Fur Affinity account and other contact information is there, as well as a link to his website. I suspect emailing him at his nickname with @gmail.com might work. He used to have @gmx.at, but that didn't work when I used it in 2011.
I've also dropped him a note on Twitter, so maybe he'll drop by…
Incidentally, the same license is used by default for the text of articles published on Flayrah since 2010, and by WikiFur. The license may be selected when posting the story, and it is signified by the black-and-white rectangle (e.g. "CC BY-SA") at the top right of the story.
You know what forget I saw this website ok I didn't know it exsisted ok.
Just pretend I don't exist cuz I dont
I'm just going to disappear soon yes its going to take a load of courage but it will happen don't ask me what it is I'm going to do cuz I'm not going to tell you at all also tails becoming a reality don't u think that's a little to much just my opinion.
but still this is no chat room.
so if you want to say something, say it in one time please.
this is because some of us get notifications every time when a message has been send on this site and it is very annoying if someone like you keep sending messages separately.
True it gets annoying everytime I get a buzz on my phone